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A new rip off - Valladolid LEVD

All these countries that have an unfriendly/prohibitive attitude towards GA are gonna get caught out bad in the end. I’ll ask only one question – do we think drones, UAV’s and electric flight is going to increase or decrease in the future to all walks of life? The answer is so painfully obvious, it’s staring them right in the face.

It’s like the oil companies that own gas stations that refuse to put chargers in the stations and cater to an electrified future… Can you say Kodak? What do they think will happen in 15 years time?

there are many non-AENA fields in Spain that are a much better deal to fly to. Not only money-wise, but also in terms of feeling welcome. VFR-only but that’s seldom a problem

One has to fly to AENA airports when going extra-Schengen (Morocco or UK), otherwise, there is no reason to fly to AENA airports? then one has lot more choices around

I do get that some want to fly IFR with 15nm DME arc in Spanish CAVOK, it’s a nice feeling to do this and “be on ILS”, sadly this service is only available at AENA airports !

Last Edited by Ibra at 20 Mar 16:54
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

I know this is historical but maybe that’s why the AF declined

Well, not long after that there was a big but failed ATC strike where all ATCO’s were militarized for several weeks and things got more reasonable after that. I guess sometimes you need to take a strong position to get things reasonable…see Wiki summary

Antonio
LESB, Spain

The decline of general aviation (GA) in Spain cannot be attributed solely to the end of the economic boom. Rather, it is largely due to the fact that airclubs were evicted from airports and AENA imposed numerous taxes and requirements on GA, making it impractical to fly in Spain. Consequently, many individuals have turned to ultralight aircraft (ULM), which are easier to operate, maintain, and cheaper to fly. Given Spain’s small size, the country boasts excellent fast rail connections and highways, rendering GA travel unnecessary for most people. Additionally, favorable weather conditions typically negate the need for Instrument Flight Rules (IFR) flying. Rising gas prices and high excise taxes on AVGAS for private flying have also contributed to the decline.

Spot on. And my prediction is that the decline will be continuing, although there isn’t much left to decline from. Reason being that after persistent pressure from the various GA associations, the authorities are finally facilitating ULM flying. The main things that have been achieved are: increasing MTOM to 600 kg and flying above 1.000 ft AGL. Discussions are moving in the right direction regarding access to CAS and simplified registration of a ULM. On the latter, the idea is to be able to Spanish-reg a ULM on the basis of an type-approval of another EASA-country. This really opens up the possibilities for Spaniards and Spanish residents to get the aircraft they want. Currently, the offering is limited and it is a complete joke to try and register a foreign ULM. I’ve heard stories that one would have to completely disassemble the aircraft, including drilling out rivets, and do static structural testing.

Slightly more on topic: We’ve covered this many times on the forum, but there are many non-AENA fields in Spain that are a much better deal to fly to. Not only money-wise, but also in terms of feeling welcome. VFR-only but that’s seldom a problem.

Last Edited by aart at 20 Mar 07:10
Private field, Mallorca, Spain

Ibra wrote:

Funnily enough Mil ATC in UK are the only guys who can offer as many PAR, SRA, ILS for free without even booking or PPR

However, they are damn clear you should not land

More like “the only guys that might offer some approaches” these days.

EGTR

Military air traffic control (ATC) personnel, who feel they only work for military aircraft, tend to view civilian light aviation as a hassle.

Funnily enough Mil ATC in UK are the only guys who can offer as many PAR, SRA, ILS for free without even booking or PPR

However, they are damn clear you should not land

Last Edited by Ibra at 19 Mar 21:24
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

AENA offered to pay extra to these ATC personnel years ago, but the Air Force declined.

I know this is historical but maybe that’s why the AF declined

Given Spain’s small size, the country boasts excellent fast rail connections and highways, rendering GA travel unnecessary for most people

That’s actually true for most of central Europe, but GA is doing OK there. So maybe it is the other factors.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

@Peter

The decline of general aviation (GA) in Spain cannot be attributed solely to the end of the economic boom. Rather, it is largely due to the fact that airclubs were evicted from airports and AENA imposed numerous taxes and requirements on GA, making it impractical to fly in Spain. Consequently, many individuals have turned to ultralight aircraft (ULM), which are easier to operate, maintain, and cheaper to fly. Given Spain’s small size, the country boasts excellent fast rail connections and highways, rendering GA travel unnecessary for most people. Additionally, favorable weather conditions typically negate the need for Instrument Flight Rules (IFR) flying. Rising gas prices and high excise taxes on AVGAS for private flying have also contributed to the decline.

@Ibra

Many secondary airports in Spain are military bases with a terminal on the opposite side of the runway. Military air traffic control (ATC) personnel, who feel they only work for military aircraft, tend to view civilian light aviation as a hassle. They are aware that they are not paid enough to handle civilian traffic and have convinced airport managers to introduce unnecessary restrictions on the AIP. AENA offered to pay extra to these ATC personnel years ago, but the Air Force declined.

Don't get too slow
LECU, Spain

boscomantico wrote:

Ask this to ATC on the spot in the UK and they will laugh at you. Actually, silimar in Germany. No multiple approaches without PPR.

That may be an exaggeration wrt Germany. There are Swiss students that practice IAPs at Friedrichshafen AFAIK, and I don’t believe PPR is required but could be wrong.

It won’t work at Zurich or Geneva but smaller airfields in Switzerland (LSZR, LSZG, LSZB, LSGC) are all we have to practice the real thing and none of them need PPR. I regularly fly to LSZR and on first contact with approach I tell them my program, usually 2-3 or more IAPs, and I’ve never been refused. Of course there is a price $$$, as for everything in Switzerland.

LSZK, Switzerland

@iggy seems to keep the certified GA flag flying in his Cirrus :) There seems to be a few buddies who also do fly outs with him.

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom
14 Posts
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