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questions about VFR norway-sweden norway-denmark

Thanks a lot for all of you!! Here I got valuable hints and actual data which would else be awfully difficult to find out without actually flying there first – and perhaps paying a lot in vain. Hopefully next summer we will be able to go to both countries. I’ve never seen the Danish dune cost but would really want to see – and in Norway I’ve been only once by bus.
yes, I have read a big bunch of net pages explaining how to fly there and what to expect, but it is next to impossible to figure out all this data which you gave during one simple day – isn’t it? So thanks again..
hanski

EFFO EFHV, Finland

EKHG is a very good place for a fuel stop. The bowser is self service with creditcard.
In Denmark I find the following airports interesting fuel price wise:
EKHG Herning credit card
EKVH Vesthimmerland credit card
EKRA Rårup club
EKRS Ringsted club

Everything connected to AirBP or Shell is expensive.

pmh
ekbr ekbi, Denmark

dutch_flyer wrote:

I fueled there twice using their self-serve pump. No human was involved, and in fact on the way back I arrived via an ILS to EKKA, then a quick scud run, so with such terrible weather the field was entirely devoid of people. In fact I refueled outside those hours both times (once on a Saturday and once on Monday evening).
Good to know! I’ve had negative experiences with refueling in Denmark, outside of AIP mentioned ADO hours. A good example was Sindal (EKSN) back in 2019, where I landed outside AFIS hours. The card reader of their terminal didn’t accept any debit, credit, or AirBP-card. In fact, even the fuel pump was closed with a key lock. No chance to refuel, so I had to continue with my last fuel to Aalborg. Since then, I check the Danish AIP very carefully. Even phoned up some airfields, but they all confirmed that they don’t offer fuel outside of opening hours.

Nonetheless, even Herning (EKHG) is PPR in general outside opening hours. They just need a request 1 hr before they close, but as they’re not open on weekends, you can’t land there spontaneously. (At least not legally) When going from/to Norway, only Billund and Aalborg are suitable for a spontaneous visit. All other airfields don’t sell either Avgas (Esbjerg lost Avgas since 2022), don’t have customs (outside opening hours), or require PPR (some a few hours before closure time, others at least 24 hrs).

@pmh Great refuel suggestions too, thanks!
Last Edited by Frans at 06 Aug 10:59
EDKM, LSZC

hanski wrote:

I’m not sure how to understand all the complicated AIP explanations

You are not alone

What you have to know is that there are a whole bunch of commercial/public airports all along the coast. These are (almost all) owned by Avinor, and everything about them is explained in detail in the AIP. The larger ones are open 24/7, the “mid sized” are open fairly regularly (every day for most of the day), while the smaller ones are only open a few hours and could be closed the entire day. As WWaW said, a good option is to buy a weekly card, then you can go on all of them. Parking is free. There are no landing fees on them, only take off fees (almost semantics, but not quite ). Us local people normally purchase a yearly card, cost €4-600 (or more) depending on MTOW. The smaller ones (those that are closed every now and then) can also be used when they are closed. This requires a special card “PFLY” that you can get from Avinor. When they are closed, there are also no take off fees, it’s all free. The problem is that when you get there, you wont be able to get in and out of the airport without some local help (due to security, fences and stuff). It is possible to get a so call multiple site card, that you can use to get in and out by yourself (in theory, but these card seldom works anyway for some reason). All in all I would say it is better to stick to the opening hours on the smallest ones, and use either the ones that are open 24/7 or the mid sized ones. The hazzle to get PFLY and multiple site card (that don’t work anyway) is just too much cryptology IMO, for a foreigner at least. I have PFLY, but have given up on multiple site (easier to get local help). In the opening hours, they are as easy as it gets, and Avinor will pick you up with a car to get to/from your plane, free of charge.

Then there are a myriad of smaller fields (from 2-300m to several km in fact). These are mostly private, but some are owned by the local county. These are all PPR (as per AIP), but when investigating more closely, you will find that the “requirement” is that they are all open They are also usually free of charge, or a token fee is appreciated (usually €5-10). There are (usually) no public fuel etc, but it all can be arranged with a phone call up front. Think of it as a journey to the “bush”, which it basically is

Sky Demon is the best tool to find most smaller airfields, and has info about contacts. However, SD say a lot of these fields are “microlight sites” which is completely wrong:

  • There are no microlight sites in Norway, the term has no meaning. An airfield is an airfield.
  • There is no differentiation between microlights and other aircraft in the airspace. The differentiation is equipment (radio, transponder) and whether or not you can talk “airtalk” on the radio with the ATC.

However, do get in contact before landing on those. Some can be extremely special (one way, on a hill, no obvious pattern, extreme winds, animals, cars, you name it). They may also be snowed down, or not mowed in a month, or used for some festivas during a week end. Some are used for airsport activity, gliding and skydiving. Don’t ever go to such a site without a proper understanding of how stuff works there. Which is the (good) reason for PPR. Us locals know how this works, but for a foreigner it can be pretty odd perhaps ? There was a KLM Captain who came here every summer only to visit all the fields in the local area around the fjord

That is basically how it works. Avinor fields is the straight forward way (as simple as it gets really, and it doesn’t matter if you fly a TMG, a UL or IFR in a Cirrus), at least when inside opening hours. There are 50 or some Avinor fields, and all the larger ones are open 24/7. However, if you want to experience “real flying like it was supposed to be”, you have to go to the smaller private ones. A C-172 type will work on most of them just fine if you are moderately skilled, but not all. Even a Cirrus will be OK for at least 50-60% of them. It is definitely a “bush type” of flying though, compared with Avinor fields. I mean, some of the Avinor fields used by Widerøe can also be rather “far out” compared even with a normal Swedish private field.

Just an example of how things are here: We (a handful of “aerobatic” guys) just purchased us a Super Decathlon. Last Thursday the aerobatic instructor among us and I went to a small field called Breivika (Agdenes Airfield Breivika). That’s the homefield of one top level FI (examiner etc) who also happens to fly aerobatics. I wanted an aerobatic refresh in the new plane, since our Safir hasn’t been working properly for over a year. The instructor wanted a training for back seat aerobatic instructions with a seasoned pilot up front (not someone like me, who suddenly can do all kinds of stupid things ). He has only been instructing in the Safir, which is side by side Anyway, Breivika is a 500m gras strip at 260 feet alt, within the CTR or Ørland (ENOL). Ørland is a military airfield with a whole bunch of F-35s, AWACS and whatnot.

The strip is literally on the final of runway 33, and the terrain is very “hilly” (or “kupert” as we say, no English word exists AFASIK). I was flying in the front seat on the trip from ENVA to Breivika. When entering the CTR of ENOL the TWR told me a whole bunch of F-35s were landing, and I had to stay at max 500 feet. The only way to do that is to fly over the fjord (passed the speed/catamaran local boat on the way ). So, us flying at 500 feet, and the airport at 260 feet. How was that going to work? I had no maps or GPS in the front, but the instructor in the back had SD on his pad. The main problem was finding the strip in the hilly terrain. The strip is literally cramped in a short valley. What we did was to follow the fjord out, then when ca on final at Breivika he told me to turn left. Just after turning left I finally saw the strip and was already at final 240 feet above the field, and F-35s ahead and above me

We both got up to speed on the aircraft, and had a great time :-)

Last week end we had this competition flying. It’s old school navigation, but with a tracking GPS on board, so the audience can follow in real time all the mistakes. It’s quite fun https://home.airsports.no/

This was at Namsos ENNM. This is a picture from the “line” (a bit early in the morning, more people and plane turned up)

I and my co owner were flying the Savannah (at the far end) in the competition. We don’t mention the results… The important thing is to have fun ENNM is one of these small Avinor fields. That day it only had one arrival and departure by Widerøe. The tower stayed open from 1100 to 1400 (i think). We started the (competition) flying at 1200. The tower also had this app, and could follow us. He also had a great time, and take off and landing (3 pin point landings were also part of the competition) were done in the normal way with the tower.

The VL3 (the second plane) was owned by a retired Widerøe pilot. He was using one month of the summer to “collect” airports in Norway together with a friend. They had come to 59, and were heading south. That sounds a bit incredible IMO, but then he told they met a Czech pilot who had (when they met him) done 54 airports in Norway within 6 days (I think it was). That is completely insane There is this unpublic competition of getting most airports in the shortest time.

This is from the way back home. I flew the Alphatrainer with another pilot who hadn’t flown for a while:

Another difference between Sweden and Norway is radio. In Norway we can use 25 kHz differentiation, but this cannot be done i Sweden. This is usually a non issue, since most planes have 8.33 kHz anyway. However, I and another guy was ferrying a plane to Optand (ESNM) a couple of months ago, to be sold to a Swedish guy from Stockholm area. This plane had an old radio, but none of us even though about it at all. Then when entering Swedish airspace, looking at SD for frequency of Sweden Control and tried to enter the channel, there was a really big WTF moment. The frequency had 3 digits after the decimal, but the radio only had 2 !!! A couple of seconds later we understood what was going on, but then the next question arose: How to get in contact with Sweden control? How to get in contact with anyone? Then I thought back to discussions here about how this 8.33 channels works. The solution is simply to disregard the last digit, and it worked When meeting the guy who purchased the plane, he just said no big deal. According to him there were only a “couple” of places in Sweden where 8.33 really was needed.

Then I have to mention the real difference between Norway and Sweden. Optand is a GA airport just outside Östersund. In Swedish measures it is pretty “far north” (not including the skiing town of Åre of course, which is a popular place). Anyway, the airport and facilities at Optand is way better than anything we have at any GA airport in Norway. Sweden has a much better developed GA infrastructure. In Norway we have a much better developed “Avinor infrastructure” that GA can use (and uses), but not much GA only infrastructure. In Norway GA is “Avinor or bush”. Lots of pilots in Norway use Avinor fields exclusively for instance (Kjeller is seen as more of an Avinor field in this regard).

Again, as WWaW said, the VFR Norway is the best start.

ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

LeSving wrote:

the terrain is very “hilly” (or “kupert” as we say, no English word exists AFASIK).

Swedish has the same word (“kuperad”) and I believe “hilly” is indeed the proper English translation.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

LeSving, you do a good job of selling Norway as a flyin destination. If only it wasn’t so far away (from me) !

Some day I’ll get there….when I’m richer

EIWT Weston, Ireland
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