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TDODAR (and variations of - discussion of dealing with unexpected situations)

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When I do scenario based training, it is a scenario I use from time to time.

You’d be surprised at the number of people who declare urgency or distress and go straight back, without any real thought of options.

I am using it as a way of getting them to put the T in TDODAR. Absolutely nothing needs to be done for three to six hours (unless it’s dusk or the weather is closing in), so a good start is to do nothing, just like in the video.

EGKB Biggin Hill

That’s my point. You need to work out how much T you have, as the first letter in TDODAR.

That is why I use a lost wheel; as an example of when you have a lot of T and a lot of Os.

EGKB Biggin Hill

Timothy wrote:

That’s my point. You need to work out how much T you have, as the first letter in TDODAR.

That is why I use a lost wheel; as an example of when you have a lot of T and a lot of Os.

Ah, I see, good point. I must admit I hadnt read your explanation of your point in full. Makes very good sense.

Last Edited by Fuji_Abound at 14 Sep 20:57

TDODAR ?

EHLE / Lelystad, Netherlands, Netherlands

https://www.euroga.org/forums/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&for=tdodar&commit=Search

I don’t want to move yet another obscure abbreviation to the Obscure Abbreviations thread, which results in the poster starting a thread about a thread about a thread

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Decision making model….

Time
Diagnosis
Options
Decision
Assign
Review

Who remembers this kind of stuff when in an emergency? Nobody

Last Edited by EuroFlyer at 15 Sep 05:57
Safe landings !
EDLN, Germany

Professionals definitely do. And their proficiency in applying it is checked repeatedly every six months.

There is no reason why amateurs should not also learn to apply it, and that is what makes scenario based training superior to skills based training.

I subject myself to proficiency checks every six months (like a professional) rather than the minimum twelve monthly requirement set out by EASA for my operation (which is Part NCO) precisely to keep the scenarios and methodology in the forefront of my mind. For people who fly their families and friends, I would advocate considering that approach. Most accidents are caused by pilots, not aircraft.

It was clearly applied in the case in the video. TDODAR is a team effort, and the fact that the ATCO started the process rather than the student pilot, and it was then continued successively by the two instructors showed excellent teamwork.

EGKB Biggin Hill

that is what makes scenario based training superior to skills based training.

Agree, the EASA IR where the test is completely choreographed the candidate knowing exactly when, and what type of emergency they will encounter, doesn’t appear to test different scenarios.

Arguably the FAA IR does attempt to throw different scenarios at different times, and not part of the exam briefing, at candidates to test their ability to diagnose and remedy.

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom

Timothy wrote:

There is no reason why amateurs should not also learn to apply it

Time is one. For professional pilots, lack of currency is not a problem, but lack of real accidents and incidents are. You cannot expect to handle accidents and incidents well if you never train for it. Still, the best way to survive an incident/accident is to prevent it from happen in the first place. The same is true also for PPL, and it takes much less time to make sure an incident wont happen, than to train for it. Besides, the only thing that can happen with any probability statistically speaking, is engine failure. As for all the other accidents, it’s either poor planning (VFR into IMC and similar) and poor handling skills (accidents at take off/landing).

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

LeSving wrote:

Besides, the only thing that can happen with any probability statistically speaking, is engine failure. As for all the other accidents, it’s either poor planning (VFR into IMC and similar) and poor handling skills (accidents at take off/landing).

Really though? No electrical failures, gear failures, radio failures, bird strikes, doors coming open, sick passengers, trim runaways, jammed controls. Lucky us.

And engine failures are scarcely black and white affairs. After all, an SEP has four or six engines, all connected to a crankshaft and a twin has eight to twelve connected to two crankshafts; there is a great range of failure modes, each with its own signs and symptoms, and a great range of scenarios in which they can happen, from EFATO to over sea, 100nm from the nearest runway or overhead one etc etc.

LeSving wrote:

it takes much less time to make sure an incident wont happen, than to train for it.

I would love to see that magic bullet that makes sure an incident won’t happen. I have flown all sorts of aircraft under all sorts of maintenance regimes, from military to civilian to Rolls Royce factory, and they all seem to fail, even with the most careful engineering and pilot checks.

Yes, you can mitigate risk, but you also owe it to your passengers, many of whom (such as your own children) trust you blindly, to be as best prepared as possible for stuff to happen.

EGKB Biggin Hill
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