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EASA Basic IR (BIR) and conversions from it

PapaPapa wrote:

respondents, those who speak the best English

That was my first thought, too, but then where are the Dutch?

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Peter wrote:

It’s slightly funny for me to see this, having been in PPL/IR c. 2005-2015 and seen them argue hard against any sub-ICAO IR, on the grounds that it could lead to some countries (or some airports) blocking the holders of it from certain airspace or certain airports. I don’t know what has changed, but then I don’t know if PPL/IR are involved in this anymore.

I have only been in PPL/IR since 2015, but I have never seen anyone argue against a simplified IR like the BIR. On the contrary, people seem generally happy with the BIR proposal — except for the restrictions. AFAIU PPL/IR people have been involved in the BIR work.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Peter wrote:

It would need every little PPL school to be able to train it, and then you wonder what the FI qualifications would be – yet another factor which will make most PPL schools not offer it.

Right now, EASA has only ATOs. There is nothing else AFAIK. You want to train for PPL or even LAPL, you have to be an ATO (there might be a deadline or derogation at work but I know aeroclubs that became ATOs years ago; hence they could offer LAPL(S) for example). ATOs can train for everything as long as they have the right instructors (and I imagine that’s one problem). And as I wrote, I think it’s a wrong move not to teach BIR in the future DTO/ RTO/ whatever. But those don’t exist yet.

Peter wrote:

For nearly private pilots in Europe, the CBIR will be dead because flying outside “political Europe” is quite a hassle and thus unattractive for most.

Given how far the EU has expanded, it’s a limitation many could live with. The practical part will still be useful in modular ATPL training. And the conversion will be useful as well. By the way, there’ll be another conversion, from foreign ICAO compliant IR to BIR with even lower prerequisites.

“french has to be used in RT in France by french people”

indeed I stumbled upon it recently again (and I was still surprised…). It is unless for training pruposes.
Like many things it’s unverifiable, and more so with EASA. You can now have anyone flying on the F- register as you are not compelled to change your country of registration in EASA. And in my case I made all my training in English and, while I hold a French license, I don’t feel comfortable with IR terminology in French, so I do it in English. As I’m flying LX- registration nobody will question it, but technically I’m not respecting the regulations.

If the BIR is sub ICAO with exams decided nationally, what is really its worth ? It beats the purpose of EASA and becomes effectively a national IR available in all EASA countries.
And how do you progress from BIR to IR/CBIR ? If it’s only an oral exam during the practical test there will really be a lot of gaps to fill between BIR and the other IR…

ELLX (Luxembourg), Luxembourg

The DTO proposal is subject to a revision of the Basic Regulation. Despite people saying it’s being worked on, I will only believe it once I see it in force.

I don’t think we will see any DTOs any sooner than maybe 5 years from now, if ever.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

AIUI the BIR would be usable all over EASA-land, unless you don’t have ELP in which case it would be usable only in your own country (or in some combinations like the previously mentioned German language being usable in Switzerland and Austria).

AIUI the French speaking requirement is tied to the pilot’s license being DGAC-issued, not to his aircraft reg being F. @Aviathor might know more; also where this law can be found. It might not be an aviation law. It is a national identity preservation issue.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

boscomantico wrote:

The DTO proposal is subject to a revision of the Basic Regulation.

I think we managed to persuade them that it is not. The Opinion ducks the issue.

boscomantico wrote:

I don’t think we will see any DTOs any sooner than maybe 5 years from now, if ever.

I sure hope that you are wrong! This has priority and “have to” come in to force before the ATO requirement in 2018.

ESSZ, Sweden

Peter wrote:

AIUI the French speaking requirement is tied to the pilot’s license being DGAC-issued, not to his aircraft reg being F.

Correct. French pilots must use the french language:

The legal basis can be found here:
Radiotéléphonie

Page 13:
2.4. Usage de la langue française
La langue française est, sauf cas particulier (entraînement par exemple) utilisée entre pilote français et contrôleur français.

LSZG

Never understood the rationale of that one. I do tend to use French in France, and Portuguese in Portugal, as it is kind of fun and no need to talk a “foreign” language to a controller with whom I speak mother tongue, except if other people in frequency (english on the circuit for instance). Making it mandatory is just weird.
In my begginings flying in france, I sometimes reverted to English (I learned to fly in the UK), if I didn’t know what to say. Letting people use the language they are comfortable is a good thing.
Also, not sure what “french pilot means”. I have a French passport but also a British one. My licence is UK and I live in UK.

Looks like the only situation where someone would try to enforce this would be some disgrunted controller. I don’t recall having any of these in France, they often even forget and revert talking english to me (probably due to G-reg). The times where I reverted to English (due to load and not knowing all the french aviation terms), they never got angry and switched to english easily.

Just a dumb rule, I wouldn’t enforce either way

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