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EASA classroom requirement for theory training (100% remote now)

Peter wrote:

while staying in some sh1tty hotel

You get what you pay for. If you can afford an IR, you can take a nicer hotel if you feel the need.
My dad once stayed for weeks in a really cheap hotel for some flight training. He liked it (but most would have run away).

Peter wrote:

The CBIR and now the BIR have addressed some of these but the bulk of the list remains firmly in place

I think the way out is clubs becoming ATOs and training for the IR. Their problem is they can’t organize a full-time flying boot camp to train someone in 2-3 weeks. So the student has to live roughly in the area and make it over months.
Some clubs make it happen in the middle of nowhere : https://sites.google.com/site/acredonnais/bienvenue/actualit%C3%A9s-2023
I think the other pb of the IR is that IR means owning or sharing an aircraft. So increasing the IR population is blocked by :
- the obstacles to the IR itself
- the obstacles to aircraft ownership

LFOU, France

This is a great move forward.

Most older people have busy lives and travelling to some FTO to sit there for days while staying in some sh1tty hotel is no fun and a big waste of time.

This is one of a list of factors why US GA is so much healthier than European GA. The CBIR and now the BIR have addressed some of these but the bulk of the list remains firmly in place Accordingly the CBIR has done hardly anything to improve the number of private IRs actually appearing and flying.

By European “make money off everybody possible” standards, this is dynamite.

Whether it will change what actually goes on in the 80-100k CPL/IR FTOs is another matter. They will use A-A’s argument: better control of people when they are sitting in the room. And most are very young so are used to sitting in a room for hours; they have been doing just that since the age or 5 or 6

The Swedish higher education funding system is a different topic and you can’t do it for vast numbers of foreign students.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

As a university, you have to do that anyway, otherwise you get a rebellion (actually probably the French Revolution) once the customers realise they are paying €xxxxx a year for a “video course”

Of course, university tuition in Sweden is free, so this hypothesis doesn’t hold water. And in any case when we did this remotely during the pandemic it was not a “video course” as we (professors) gave live lectures and still kept in personal contact with students.

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 19 Apr 19:12
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Airborne_Again wrote:

but from a pedagogical point of view classroom teaching really is better

It depends. Kids and teenagers – yes. University students – perhaps, but the social thing is just as important. Without real classes, the social scene also evaporates as the pandemic has shown. Besides, most university students aren’t mature enough anyway to study on their own. So yes, classroom teaching can be said to be better from a “pedagogical” point of view, meaning better for most people who are at the age and place in life where the main thing they do is learn. But, I’m sure it has mostly do do with life getting unbearably boring and lonely without classrooms, as the pandemic also did show.

What we are talking about here is a token tiny bit of the course that has to be classroom because? Such silliness should be removed ages ago.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

Peter wrote:

but will they now revert to bum-on-seat?

@Peter, I don’t think they REALLY wanted the actual classroom, likely it was a CAA ask.
And now as it is allowed permanently, ATOs can charge you the same as before and do it over video, so don’t have to pay for the facilities – better margins.

EGTR

OK; I get it. They had a choice with covid:

  • use video, or
  • go bust

but will they now revert to bum-on-seat?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

That must be new because for many years e.g. CATS required sum bum-on-seat time. EASA allowed a formula whereby x days of self study were equivalent to y days of bum-on-seat, and obviously the FTOs doing distance programmes wanted to optimise that formula. But the CBIR needed something like 5 days residential. Same for the CPL.

Peter, that has changed, it is just that classroom time is done via videoconferencing. Much more convenient.

EGTR

That must be new because for many years e.g. CATS required sum bum-on-seat time. EASA allowed a formula whereby x days of self study were equivalent to y days of bum-on-seat, and obviously the FTOs doing distance programmes wanted to optimise that formula. But the CBIR needed something like 5 days residential. Same for the CPL.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Bathman wrote:

Does this apply to the UK?

@Bathman, distance learning? Yes, had my CB-IR theory remote (except the exams, of course) and a few guys had their ATPL at the same time.
CAPT

EGTR

Personally I hate classroom learning, it always runs at about 10% of the speed I would like. I did all my theory for PPL/CPL/PPL-H/IR by reading books. Other people are entitled to their own opinions, but I’ve always hated the idea of being forced to do classroom learning.

LFMD, France
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