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Touch&Go circuits

Interesting points being brought up. Thb touch & gos in a primary trainer are the easiest type, as opposed to a complex, turbine or tailwheel. But then again, in training you are also very inexperienced, so even if they are the easiest type, they are still very demanding for a student. I do agree to one positive aspect, that it requires one to think and react quickly.
Another aspect would be, with stop & taxi back you have time to discuss with the FI what you can improve, and try something different on the next landing. With a touch and go and a short pattern there is no time for a feedback loop.

It seems that touch&goes are a rather disputed method, so it probably comes down to personal preference, airplane type, runway and wind conditions.
https://www.aviationsafetymagazine.com/features/touch-and-goes-2/
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2008/august/flight-training-magazine/a-different-kind-of-landing

LSZF,LSZK, Switzerland

T&Gs have been around a long time. I think we all agree they can be overwhelming, the more so in a complex machine and in a tight circuit, sometimes with other traffic.
T&Gs are not only to ingrain the actions of judging and performing an approach/landing/take-off in a minimal amount of actual airborne time, but also as a training to the limit of overload.
Also the whole procedure after the actual touch is akin to the most useful procedure in aviation, the go-around

The one downside I see, is the clogging up of the pattern, or circuit in EU speak. I see that the OP @andy_flyer also operates from my field, where 3 of them flight school Katanas easily manage to block access to said pattern, as we have an overhead circle join, 500‘ above PTA. I think my record being 17 entry circle holds before one of the FI realized another airplane was here, and extended his pattern to let me in

Dan
ain't the Destination, but the Journey
LSZF, Switzerland

Basic flying skills like take off and in particular landing, are something that just has to be repeated until they are firmly stuck in your back bone. The more sweat, the better As with everything else, some learn fast, others take ages. An important point is that you cannot really do it if you start sweating. Then you have to train more, until you stop sweating.

This is particularly evident when doing a tail wheel rating. I think I did over 50 landings within 2-3 hours.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

I am around 15h into my PPL training in Romania and God do I hate touch n goes and we’ve been doing it for the last 10h I think.
Why are we doing it? Well I didn’t really think about it until now. Maybe its the most effective training method? You can do more landings in 1h this way?
Don’t really know why but once I mastered this I don’t think there is much more to it(ppl), is it?

Romania

freehugs wrote:

I am around 15h into my PPL training in Romania and God do I hate touch n goes and we’ve been doing it for the last 10h I think.
Why are we doing it? Well I didn’t really think about it until now. Maybe its the most effective training method? You can do more landings in 1h this way?

Another reason is you have to be very quick in transitioning from take-off to cruise to approach to landing and back to takeoff.
And it imprints the image the runway in your brain. :)

freehugs wrote:

Don’t really know why but once I mastered this I don’t think there is much more to it(ppl), is it?

Nope, that’s just the beginning!

EGTR

In the earlier student phase, you’ll probably not get to the point of having time to spare in ‘Circuit bashing’ but if you have learned at a big airfield (perhaps 1600m Tarmac?) You should be heading that way.
As a representation of your learning to be ‘up to speed’ and ‘Thinking ahead or in front of the aircraft’
there should be time, and no stress by the later stages of your training.

Then it returns to being busy again when you go complex with Cowl flaps (on a very cowl-dependent aircraft) Prop and retractable gear.

United Kingdom

Have to say I’m quite surprised that other pilots don’t seem to like T&G. If anything is going to fundamentally connect you with your steed it’s this surely. If I’ve had a long day then I can’t think of anything better than jumping in the Nord and banging out a dozen listening to Top gun. Life does just not get better.

Pig
If only I’d known that….
EGSH. Norwich. , United Kingdom

I always hated T&G circuits and thought they had little learning value because the student is very new and struggling with basically everything, so has little brainpower left, and one just ends up soaked in sweat. It is better to do one and then go away for 10 mins, so the experience can sink in. But that would make a PPL more expensive…

PPL training is stuck between conflicting objectives. One is that nearly all customers want the cheapest possible product (because they are doing a bucket list item and don’t really want to fly afterwards, although a few get “hooked”). Another is that a lot of the training goes back to traditional military procedures from WW1/WW2 and nobody wants to change that because tradition is most important.

Previous thread on improving things. But there would be few customers because the PPL would cost 20k+. But you can do that if you want, and I know people who did. For example one of the founders of EuroGA did an FAA PPL on a trip around the US. That way you get the PPL and you are already an excellent and capable pilot.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Practise them in full configuration. One day
You may need it. For example you land too far on short rwy by heavy aircraft.
I had it several times, in second you need to change power, flaps, check prop’s and go.

If you never did it = low experience but it will came.

http://www.Bornholm.Aero
EKRN, Denmark

Alpha_Floor wrote:

Some ATOs wouldn’t let you do touch and goes at certain short runways which to me was kind of nonsensical: if the runway is too short for a touch and go, then how can it be fine for a full stop landing? or a normal take-off?

I think it’s just a matter of timing and aircraft performance… on short runways, you can be well past half the runway by the time you have reconfigured your aircraft for take off, leaving insufficient runway for a safe take off. E.g. the 400m EDMJ Jesenwang, with a hill when taking off in 25. Touch and go’s never felt right there in 25 with a 180hp C172 and I never did one even during training flights with instructor. The situation might look different with a different machine, though (Supercub perhaps?), or in the 07 direction.

Last Edited by etn at 18 May 17:03
etn
EDQN, Germany
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