Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Is PPL the mother of all licenses? PPL vs Glider vs ULM

Hi,

I desperately want to fly and have dreamed about flying my whole life. I am thinking about to take the PPL in Belgium and afterwards take my glider/motor glider license. With this 2 licenses will I be able to fly ULMs in Belgium and Portugal, or will I need to take a ULM license in both countries?

Can I start the flying lessons before passing the PPL theory exam?
With the PPL will I need to pass again a theory exam for gliders and ULMs? Is it lighter than if I don’t have the PPL?
If I cannot start flying lessons before passing the theory exam, is there any inconvenient to have ULM flying lessons?
Is there any inconvenient (not money related) to have PPL(a) and glider flying lessons at the same time?

I am Portuguese living in Zurich during the week, in Brussels on weekends and passing a big part of my vacations in Portugal. I can understand written and spoken French but I barely speak and write. My ideal situation in the future is to be able to find a club with a good touring motor glider to rent so that I can enjoy motor flying and sail plane flying. In theory, I would be good with a ULM license and a Glider/Motorglider license, but the problem is that I don’t find a school in Belgium with online theory classes and with classes and exams in English.

Sorry for the long post, but it has been difficult to find answers to all these questions

Switzerland

JFonseca wrote:

I desperately want to fly and have dreamed about flying my whole life. I am thinking about to take the PPL in Belgium and afterwards take my glider/motor glider license. With this 2 licenses will I be able to fly ULMs in Belgium and Portugal, or will I need to take a ULM license in both countries?

Generally speaking, to pilot an aircraft you must have a license issued (or accepted) by the country where the aircraft is registered. If you have that, you can (in principle) use that license everywhere in the world. So the answer to your question depends on the registration of the ULM and the policies of Belgium and Portugal as regards recognition of licenses. (Also, generally speaking, as ULM are not internationally standardised you need the permission of each country if you want to fly an ULM which is not registered in that country.)

All countries in the EASA system (EU and some more) automatically accept PPL (and commercial licenses) issued by other EASA countries, but not UL licenses. Even if you have a PPL you can’t automatically fly an ULM – that depends on national rules.

Can I start the flying lessons before passing the PPL theory exam?

Yes.

With the PPL will I need to pass again a theory exam for gliders and ULMs? Is it lighter than if I don’t have the PPL?

For ULM, that depends on the country. Some might require the same amount of theory as for PPL, other may have lighter requirements.

For the glider licenses (SPL), you can be credited for some PPL exams, but you have to pass several additional glider-specific exams

Is there any inconvenient (not money related) to have PPL(a) and glider flying lessons at the same time?

I would advise against it. Even using different types of aircraft during PPL training can cause the training to take longer. I would expect the same – but worse – if you trained for the PPL and SPL at the same time.

I am Portuguese living in Zurich during the week, in Brussels on weekends and passing a big part of my vacations in Portugal. I can understand written and spoken French but I barely speak and write. My ideal situation in the future is to be able to find a club with a good touring motor glider to rent so that I can enjoy motor flying and sail plane flying. In theory, I would be good with a ULM license and a Glider/Motorglider license, but the problem is that I don’t find a school in Belgium with online theory classes and with classes and exams in English.

If all you want is to fly (motor)gliders and ULMs, I don’t see much point in training for the PPL first. You should go straight for the SPL and an ULM license. Which order is best would depend on national regulations for ULM.

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 08 Oct 08:08
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

JFonseca wrote:

My ideal situation in the future is to be able to find a club with a good touring motor glider to rent so that I can enjoy motor flying and sail plane flying

Well, that’s you answer right there. Get a gliding license and a TMG rating SPL or LAPL S is EASA and works all over EASA land, no questions asked.

A problem with ULM is that it is 100% national. That also apply to the language. Even in Norway where the youth speak English and Norwegian interchangeably, the ULM license requires Norwegian because everything is written in Norwegian (theory, exams, all of it). Swedish and Danish is no problem. All foreigners (with a foreign ULM license) can fly a Norwegian ULM in Norway for 3 months after a check ride with an instructor. More than 3 months, and you need a Norwegian license. This is no problem either, but you have to take two exams in Norwegian (The Norwegian regs and maintenance). If you want to fly in controlled airspace, you also need RT (with English proficiency ) In practice you need to know a Scandinavian language + English to be able to get a “full” Norwegian ULM license. For max 3 months at a time, no problem, but you still need RT regardless to fly in controlled airspace (ATC requirement, nothing to do with the ULM license as such).

I started with gliders (in Belgium). Then went on to get my PPL and much later the ULM license. Today though I think actually the LAPL is the best starting point if you don’t know exactly where you end up in the end, especially if that LAPL has been taken in an LSA (which is the same as a ULM for all practical reasons). With a LAPL it’s easy to go either way (PPL or ULM), but also easier to go to LAPL S/SPL. My impression (as ULM instructor) is that people who have got their PPL in a C-172 are kind of stuck to C-172s. They are simply too easy to fly, and they don’t learn the basics of maneuvering (unless taking CPL/ATPL for some odd reason. They are in general good at adapting to ULM, much better than the average C-172 PPL pilot, several notches better). Glider pilots, no problems whatsoever either.

A glider pilot with a TMG can fly any ULM with no problems. A PPL with C-172 experience only, will on average need time to get accustomed to an ULM. But if you know that gliders/TMG is what you want to fly, don’t waste time and money. Go directly to SPL/LAPL-S and get a TMG rating.

Last Edited by LeSving at 08 Oct 10:29
The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

If language and time was not a problem, I would definitely start with ULM (just because the glider season only starts in March) and afterwards get the SPL.

But around Brussels the glider and ULM schools don’t have online theory classes and all classes are in French. 🙁 The French part I think with some effort I would be able to make it because I understand 95% of what I read and about 70% of what listen, but the in person mandatory classes I just can’t do it due to being in Zurich or travelling for business during the week.

Switzerland

I decided to go with a glider and TMG license. The manual and the classes will be in French, but I am looking for book(s) in English where I can find everything that I need to Know for the theory exams.

For gliders I found the British gliders association manual, which I think it might be good for the glider part, but I am having problems finding a TMG theory book.

Switzerland
5 Posts
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top