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0 to PPL, EASA

Hello,

I am pursuing a PPL for recreational use, with a passenger.

In the interest of your time, I am going to phrase the (many) questions I have as such that they are assumptions, this means if you know an assumption is correct, you needn’t bother, just point out the wrong assumptions I have, or feel free to advise in your own way.

  1. I am thinking of recreational use, up to 20h/year flight, with a passenger. I’m interested in the minimum qualifications required for night (AFAIK this is a separate night rating exam), short cross-country flights are nice to have. For this I understand PPL is the way to go for a wider range of planes available, and the costs aren’t that much different than LAPL
  2. If I want to have a wider range of countries to rent an airplane in Europe, I should get the EASA PPL, as opposed to the “UK Post-brexit PPL”
  3. The UK uses BGS type of Question Banks and this is what I should use if I want to train for the PPL exam in the UK
  4. It’s better that I see what the school of choice uses as an Online Question Bank to prepare for written exams, before I start buying a subscription to a Question Bank that the school of choice doesn’t really use for the written exam
  5. I considered getting Pooley’s 7 APM books but I’ve read it’s a huge undertaking to read and thoroughly understand what’s in them, and they are largely composed of Q&A’s anyway, so I’m better off with point E below + training with Online Question Banks and revisiting topics I’m struggling with
  6. I very much like the UK way of teaching, but I heard the weather’s a PITA and I might not get the necessary hours after 1 month there due to weather delays (see point G below).
  7. As Plan B, Portugal and Spain are places where I can find English Speaking, Good EASA PPL schools, and where the weather and the sights are better (looking for a good recommendation here, especially if you studied there yourself).

Looking for feedback on my plan outline from 0 to PPL, my deadline’s 1yr, looking for advice, or steps I’m missing.

A. Book a Discovery Flight close to home (Switzerland) to see what I’m getting myself into
B. Finish the King’s Flight School DVD’s that I now use for an overview of flying, taking notes as necessary of concepts and procedures
C. Take the Class 2 Medical Exam (does it need to be done in UK or EU? Switzerland’s not in the EU)
D. Find a school to take the 9 written exams, ideally the same where I’ll later do the practical lessons after I pass exams (I should spread the exams across 2+ days)
E. Go through FAA Pilot’s Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge 2016 500+ pages
F. For Online Computer Question Banks I’m considering https://www.pplcruiser.co.uk/ and https://www.bgsonline.eu/ . While more featured https://www.aviationexam.com/ offers no PPL question set, but higher such as ATPL. If you had any experience with any of these or if you have a different recommendation, it would be appreciated.
G. For iPad Question Banks to study for the PPL Exam I’ve read good things about PPLTutor. If you had any experience with this or if you have a different recommendation for EASA PPL, it would be appreciated.
H. Once the 9 written exams are out of the way, look for a school to move close to for 1 month for the practical morning flying lessons, while I work remote later in the day.
I. Once the minimum hours are done + any extra hours I may need to feel confident, I’ll schedule the oral exam and the practical checkride flying exam.
J. After the checkride is passed, get night rating later on, to enable me to fly in dusk
K. Have Fun Flying

Any advice or feedback is much appreciated.
Thank you

Switzerland

Hello and welcome!

I’ve done my PPL in 2020, followed by the Night Rating and the Instrument Rating in 2021. Those things you are worrying about are quite fresh to me so I will try to give you some insights. I’m sure the other members will also give very good advices.

But first of all I would like to ask you two questions that came to my mind while I was reading your text:
- while living in Switzerland (which is a member state of EASA), why are you thinking at doing a UK PPL?
- why do you plan only one month for the flight training hours? While it is possible to do a PPL in a month with a lot of dedication (I would have done mine
in 6 weeks if I wouldn’t have been stopped due to covid), trying to do the mandatory hours in such a short time frame will put a lot of pressure on you.

Back to your questions:
1. From my knowledge, it’s possible to add a night rating to a LAPL. A PPL will allow you to fly bigger airplanes than a LAPL, however if you never want to bring more than one people with you, a LAPL might be of consideration
2. If you live and want to fly in “EASA land” (basically EU + some associated countries), get a EASA licence
5. I have the Pooley’s books and used them for my PPL. They can be harsh to read but are interesting.
6. See point 2 and my question above
7. I did my PPL training and NR at Fly in Spain in Jerez LEJR, I can give you my thoughts about that school if you wish. If you live close to the French border, you can also consider France for your PPL training as it will probably be less expensive than Switzerland

A. very good idea
C. An EASA medical is an EASA medical, doesn’t matter where you take it. However, doing the medical in the country you will have your licence will save up some paperwork stuffs
G. PPL Tutor was a very helpful tool for me
H. You don’t necessirally need to have all you theory exams passed before starting your practical training. From my experience, I would even say that it’s easier to do both in parrallel as flying the aircraft will help you to understand the theorical stuffs you studied in the books and vice versa. Correct me if I’m wrong, but legally speaking, the only exam you need to have is Air Law (mandatory before starting flying solo).
J. You can do the Night Rating right away after you get your PPL. In fact there is no exam for that rating. The head of training of the school will sign you once you have achieved the mandatory night training

Switzerland

Thanks rschris, answers below:

rschris wrote:

- while living in Switzerland (which is a member state of EASA), why are you thinking at doing a UK PPL?

After a bit of research I’ve reached the conclusion that CH charges double than neighboring countries (especially when talking about flight hours), and quite a bit more than the UK, which means it greatly exceeds my budget which is around 11000 GBP in total (excluding accomodations, which I don’t know yet if it’s a reasonable budget). I also don’t speak German.
However, I’m still open to suggestions if you know a good Swiss School and a patient teacher that teaches fully in English, within my budget.

rschris wrote:

- why do you plan only one month for the flight training hours?

I just pulled out a number, guess I’ll have to reconsider this, I even thought 1 month is too much so it’s good to know.

rschris wrote:

5. I have the Pooley’s books and used them for my PPL. They can be harsh to read but are interesting.

Are you thinking of selling them ? :)

allrschris wrote:

7. I did my PPL training and NR at Fly in Spain in Jerez LEJR, I can give you my thoughts about that school if you wish. If you live close to the French border, you can also consider France for your PPL training as it will probably be less expensive than Switzerland

Yes please, Spain is an option so I’d like to know of your experience. I live 1h away from Colmar, France, so I’m open to suggestions around that for a good School and a teacher that teaches fully in English.

Switzerland

The99percenter wrote:

After a bit of research I’ve reached the conclusion that CH charges double than neighboring countries (especially when talking about flight hours), and quite a bit more than the UK, which means it greatly exceeds my budget which is around 11000 GBP in total (excluding accomodations, which I don’t know yet if it’s a reasonable budget). I also don’t speak German.

A UK PPL will be essentially useless if you are based outside the UK. If you want to have English-language training there are lots of countries in the EU where English is spoken by everyone. (E.g. The Netherlands, Sweden…)

For this I understand PPL is the way to go for a wider range of planes available, and the costs aren’t that much different than LAPL

There are very few airplanes you can fly on a PPL that you can’t fly on a LAPL and probably none that you would want to (or should) fly if you plan to fly no more than 20 hrs/year. @rschris implies that you can only take one passenger with a LAPL, but that’s incorrect – you can take up to three passengers. (Note that this is not a limitation on the number of seats in the aircraft but of the actual number of passengers.)

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 10 Jan 19:30
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

To clarify: The LAPL offer you three passengers, so total 4 POB. The actual seats in the aircraft are of no importance(not allowed to have 4 POB in a two seat aircraft though;).

ESSZ, Sweden

Airborne_Again wrote:

A UK PPL will be essentially useless if you are based outside the UK. If you want to have English-language training there are lots of countries in the EU where English is spoken by everyone. (E.g. The Netherlands, Sweden…)

True, this is why I mentioned I’m looking for a EASA PPL in UK. If I’m not wrong, I found this where it lists such schools in the UK https://www.easa.europa.eu/list-atos-under-easa-oversight
I’m guessing South Ireland makes this search easier as it’s in the EU?

Switzerland

Fly310 wrote:

To clarify: The LAPL offer you three passengers, so total 4 POB. The actual seats in the aircraft are of no importance(not allowed to have 4 POB in a two seat aircraft though;).

You’re right. I’ve changed my post to avoid confusion.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Hi 99

you are overthinking all this. Plus what you write is a bit confusing. Dont try to figure this out all by yourself, instead focus on finding the right place to support you.

I think you are based in Switzerland. Could you please confirm this and where you live exactly.

The great thing about Switzerland is the aeroclub system. Although I am Australian, I happened to be living in switzerland 20 years ago where I finally decided to get my PPL (aged 42). What I found is that Switzerland is aviation heaven. All over the country are small airfields and at each of these you will find an aeroclub. The club will have a few old planes, and some kindly people who love teaching youngsters how to fly. You will have to join the club, for a modest fee, and thereafter the use of the planes will be at cost and the instructor time will be so pitifully cheap you wonder how they can afford to do it. On top of all this, learning to fly in a mountainous country is a huge added bonus.

In my case I was much more interested in just going flying than sitting the 7 theory exams. So I took lots of flight lessons. Went solo at 10 or 15 hours, did a bot more training, and then was allowed to fly alone all around the country as a “student under supervision” while I went after the theory exams for the following 9 months. The club organised classes each week. I went to some of these but found it easier to study by myself generally. The club organised the study materials I needed, and helped book my exams etc. I did have to sit the exams in the local language (French in my case). Not sure, but maybe they allow English now? Having passed the theory exams the club then organised the final step, the flight exam, with a friendly local examiner. BTW, the theory stuff is much easier to understand if you are already doing lots of actual flying. Most people do it the other way round, which is a huge mistake.

So, go and find the aeroclubs that are local to you in Switzerland. If there is good one nearby it could be the answer to your prayers. You will have a friendly place to go, planes readily available, flight instructors, support with your theory study etc etc. You might think it is cheaper to fly in the UK, but everything in the UK is run for profit, and that makes a huge difference. The swiss aeroclubs are not-for-profit organisations and therefore much more friendly.

I dont know the French system, but I think there might be a similar aeroclub system there. Hopefully someone here can comment.

Upper Harford private strip UK, near EGBJ, United Kingdom

99

further to my post above, and assuming you are living somewhere in the NW of Switzerland (you mentioned Colmar), here is a an example of an archetypal Swiss areoclub: GVMP.aero. “Group vol a moteur Porrentruy”. I have flown in there years ago. Great little airfield. The club sounds like it is exactly as I used, in Bex down in Vaud.

There are dozens of these clubs all over the country.

Upper Harford private strip UK, near EGBJ, United Kingdom

The99percenter wrote:

After a bit of research I’ve reached the conclusion that CH charges double than neighboring countries (especially when talking about flight hours), and quite a bit more than the UK, which means it greatly exceeds my budget which is around 11000 GBP in total (excluding accomodations, which I don’t know yet if it’s a reasonable budget). I also don’t speak German.
However, I’m still open to suggestions if you know a good Swiss School and a patient teacher that teaches fully in English, within my budget.

True. As for many things, Switzerland is very expensive in regard of flying. That’s why I did my PPL in Spain and my IR in France.
11’000 GBP is a sufficient budget for a PPL in many places.

The99percenter wrote:

I just pulled out a number, guess I’ll have to reconsider this, I even thought 1 month is too much so it’s good to know.

It can be achieved in 4 weeks, but it will need you to be: good, dedicated, able to fly 5 to 7 days a week. Also need some bit of luck to avoid things like bad weather, lack of aircraft/instructor available… 6 to 8 weeks is a more realistic time frame.

The99percenter wrote:

Are you thinking of selling them ? :)

Why not? :) They are not the last edition but if they are of interest for you, feel free to pm me

The99percenter wrote:

Yes please, Spain is an option so I’d like to know of your experience. I live 1h away from Colmar, France, so I’m open to suggestions around that for a good School and a teacher that teaches fully in English.

1h from Colmar, okay, my father is living in Porrentruy, so I come to that part of Switzerland from time to time
I’ve once rent with a company based in Montbeliard. The name is Eole Air Passsion. They have an interesting fleet of aircrafts, and the one I rented (C172) was old but in great condition. I know they do offer LAPL and PPL training. Can’t say if they have an english speaking instructor but might be worthwhile to ask.

Regarding Fly in Spain, I did my PPL there as well as Night Rating and been there a couple of time as a renter for time building.
Here is a brief overview.
1. The location: Jerez is a very nice city. It’s not a very big city, but you’ll find all the amenities you need there. While very conveniently located, 45min drive from Sevilla and 1h30min drive from Marbella, it’s not so touristic outside the summer months and thus accomodation, car rental and food are cheap (especially compare to Swiss standards!)
2. The airport: LEJR is a mid size regional airport. In addition to FIS, there is another school there, a big “ATPL factory” type school. Outside of the summer season, most of the traffic is training traffic, so the ATC is used to that and procedures are implemented to make sure the things are going smoothly.
On the downside, you have to go through security each time you want to access the apron, making each flying session starting with a 25min walk.
3. The aircrafts: FIS operate mainly C150 and C172 aircrafts. The planes are old and not very well maintened. They fly and so are fine for training, but jumping into them won’t be a grateful experience
4. The instructors: I was there in early December, and most faces were new to me, so seems like there is a high turnover. All the FI are english speaker, a lot are british citizens. I did my training with an instructor named Feliciano, he was a perfect insctructor and became a friend.
5. The staffs / organization: this is Spain. No offense to the Spaniard there (Andalucia is one of my favorite place on earth) but don’t expect the same level of organization and customer service that the one you would find in northern Europe. Thus being said, the girls at the office are friendly once you know them a bit.
6. Other: I do believe FIS are now working with the Malta CAA for exams and licencing.
South of Spain is an interesting place to spend time and fly

Overall, Fly in Spain isn’t the best school ever, but it’s not the worst neither. If you are looking for a place with english speaking FI, with a good weather all year round and which is friendly with your wallet, then it’s a place to consider.

Last Edited by rschris at 10 Jan 20:29
Switzerland
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