Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

RNAV retrofit (and regulations mandating loading everything from a database)

Hello all,

I am pretty sure it’s been already debated, but could someone sum it up for me please.
What is the minimum retrofit to do on a TB20 factory equipped with a KCS55 system and a KLN90 GPS to get it authorised to fly RNAV SIDS STARS and APPROACHES (at least LNAV Minimums).
What would you recommend upon your experience on RNAV.
Thank you, and good RNAV flights!
Tom

LFPE

I have flown quite a few RNAV SIDs STARs and approaches using a certified installation of a KLN90. Maybe different countries have different standards, but in Germany nothing else is required.

EDDS - Stuttgart

I think that this is just the usual thing: you need an AFMS (flight manual supplement) in your POH which authorises RNAV SIDs, STARs and approaches.

I am emailing you the IM, MM and POH for the KLN90B. On page 1-19 you will find some installation requirements



However it is also possible that yours is set to “VFR only”. The UK CAA used to insist on this because they said the TB20 is a VFR only aircraft when I got mine in 2002!

What I bizzarely cannot find is the installer configuration procedure / accessing the maintenance pages. Normally this involves holding down a button or two at power-up. I did find references to “IFR mode” which suggests it is like the KLN94 which can also be configured for VFR or IFR and in the VFR mode some features are missing. I will email you the KLN94 IM also, which contains the details.

Having read your post again, you may not even have a KLN90 however! It is an obsolete product.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

TomTom,

The KLN90B is not authorized to fly RNAV SIDs and STARs in the US. It won’t have any included in its database. The only legacy GPS systems that I know of that are approved to fly these procedures is the GNS430/5830 non WAAS series and the G1000 non WAAS systems. Otherwise, you will need a WAAS GPS version. Most TSO C129 systems are excluded in the US because the database does not support a course to fix leg type. Many such systems are capable of using an OBS mode to perform a course to a fix, but this is not permitted because the entire procedure must be loaded from the database, and as previously indicated, this is not supported on most of the older GPS systems including the KLN90B, KLN89B, KLN94, GPS155/XL, GNC300/XL and others.

KUZA, United States

what_next wrote:

I have flown quite a few RNAV SIDs STARs and approaches using a certified installation of a KLN90. Maybe different countries have different standards, but in Germany nothing else is required.

Since the RNAV SID and STAR must be flown by loading it from the database, I seriously doubt this is legal in any state.

KUZA, United States

Doesn’t the KLN90B database contain RNAV SIDs/STARs?

It definitely does contain approaches.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

NCYankee wrote:

Since the RNAV SID and STAR must be flown by loading it from the database, I seriously doubt this is legal in any state.

Maybe it was a KLN90B then. We had it in the Metro 23 I once flew (it is even mentioned in the Wikipedia Article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairchild_Swearingen_Metroliner) and it had approaches and departures in it’s database. Operation was a major PIA compared to any other GPS / FMS system I have used…

EDDS - Stuttgart

The older GPS systems have conventional SIDs and STARs in them, not ones with RNAV in the title which require PBN of RNAV 1. These are not found in the KLN90B database nor any of the older systems I mentioned, including the KLN94.

KUZA, United States

NCYankee wrote:

not ones with RNAV in the title which require PBN of RNAV 1.

The difference then may be than in Europe, RNP5 (or BRNAV) is sufficient to fly most RNAV SIDs and STARs and approaches. RNP1 (or P-RNAV = precision RNAV as we Europeans call it) is – as of now – only required in very few places like Amsterdam. So flying around Europe a KLN90B is sufficient as long as one does avoid Amsterdam… For how much longer I don’t know, but it would affect lots of private and commercial operators.

EDDS - Stuttgart

what_next wrote:

The difference then may be than in Europe, RNP5 (or BRNAV) is sufficient to fly most RNAV SIDs and STARs and approaches. RNP1 (or P-RNAV = precision RNAV as we Europeans call it) is – as of now – only required in very few places like Amsterdam.

I would have thought the contrary. Most RNAV SID/STARs I’ve seen in Europe require RNP1. Germany has overlay RNAV SID/STARs that can be flown with RNP5, but that seems to me the exception. But I guess your experience of this is greater than mine…

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 03 Feb 08:45
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden
48 Posts
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top