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Rallye Club brake parts?

We had no brake problems for several years after buying WF. Then we had to change a slave. We had regular problems for years, using DoT4 and Aviation spec.
After we changed all cylinders to aviation spec, and used aviation spec fluid, we had no problems.
Check carefully before fitting.

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom

Maoraigh wrote:

Automotive brakes use a different fluid from aviation brakes. Cylinders are not compatible with the other fluid. Original Jodel cylinders were auto. Later Robin replacements were aviation. The lot had to be changed, with piping rinsed out.

I believe that automotive brake cylinders and synthetic rubber seals are compatible with MIL-H-5606H aviation hydraulic fluid, the red stuff in common use on light aircraft. However as per your example you should not use e.g. DOT 3 or 4 automotive brake fluid in aircraft systems.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 16 Feb 19:30

“The colour of the cat doesn’t matter as long as it catches the mice.” -Deng Xiaoping (1894-1967)

When you are operating a Rallye you have to get in a certain mood, a little gallic indifference. If you have brakes, and they work, then carry on.

Buying, Selling, Flying
EISG, Ireland

I got a hint that Renault R9 or R11 (the same thing) rear brake cylinders (8 euros with interior included) fit to a Ralley Club. Can you find any reason why they would be “not safe” to use? After all the brakes are used only in very slow speeds compared to cars, so to me it is really difficult to figure out any other reason than this multiplied income for certain companies. Well, not yet heard/read about the shoes – if any car has similar ones.

EFFO EFHV, Finland

The statement about the bearings is only half true. The basic model designation (typically a 4- or 5-digit number) describes the size but says nothing about techologies, materials and tolerances. For example, FAG makes many different 6211 bearings. However, if you take a complete part number, e.g. 6211 MAP6F10A, then it defines the bearing unambiguously, and it makes no difference where you bought it (except counterfeit ones, of course). The basic number (6211 in my case) may be shared by a number of manufacturers, whereas the rest is manufacturer-specific.

Last Edited by Ultranomad at 16 Feb 13:08
LKBU (near Prague), Czech Republic

I googled for the above quote text and it appears in lots of places, all copying text from each other, e.g. here.

I think it is nonsense too, technically.

Legally, it may depend. For example aircraft tyres may be in a special category; you can’t just change to a different type, of the same size, from what the MM lists (even though just about everybody does exactly that). Can’t find the reference for it though… may have been an FAA thing only, or only if listed in the airworthiness limitations section.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

mh wrote:

IW if you know the industry standard or the car part number, it is perfectly legal in the EU to install these parts into EASA aircraft.

What you are saying is that for example main wheel bearings that have basically same part number as those we can buy in car store but with “FAA” sufix are legal to install!?

They make you to buy 4x more expensive bearings with statements like this:

I assume that Timken bearing will hold up in cessna, even with this “high” rpm number of 1384…

[ < pre > formatting replaced with < aside > on the quoted part; pre text does not flow ]

LQVI,LJMB

Rallye wrote:

A friend said me that the keys are the same keys than a citroen,i even ignored it.

I know that the Robin have the lock mechanism from the Citroën 2CV (actually even the handle is the same). I once used the keys of Robin in my 2CV, no problem, so I guess I could have used the keys of the 2CV to open the Robin and probably to start it also, but I have not tried :-)
For the brakes, I don’t know, but I would hope that they are a bit more efficient than on the 2CV :-)

ENVA, Norway

Peter, the only restriction in parts used are not life-limited, nor part of the primary structure, nor part of the flight controls; and that is a quite reasonable restriction. Brakes and gear parts are not among them.

And you don’t have to have matching part numbers, you have to be able to identify the standard or vendor part number. Also, this is not limited to new parts, NOS can be used, too.

Last Edited by mh at 15 Feb 10:20
mh
Aufwind GmbH
EKPB, Germany

There are various restrictions on this – eg. see here – but presumably wheels and brakes are not affected by these?

The identification provision is generally successfully frustrated by the aviation practice of marking items (those that are marked) with P/Ns which don’t translate to the automotive parts (and removing the automotive markings).

Socata automotive-business parts tend to be extremely hard to track down and – if you can track them down – to buy, for several reasons e.g.

  • Many electrical components (e.g. relays) are made by Valeo which is a huge French car parts maker. From Socata, these items are about 10x the retail price. Unfortunately Valeo are a hopeless company for communications and there is no process for buying their parts by the P/N stamped on the item; one can order them only by ordering e.g. a “windscreen wiper relay for a 1987 Renault model XXX”, but there is no way to discover this connection. One example is here where you can see the Valeo starter relay with the Valeo P/N stamped on it – but I was still totally unable to buy it retail
  • Many or most of the automotive parts are no longer made for the automotive market, especially after all the years have passed, and are made only for Socata, so even if you locate the manufacturer, they will realise you are a pilot who is trying to short-circuit Socata (a valued customer of theirs) and they will tell you to get stuffed. For some fun, read this where Parker did their damnest to fob me off, and that was a UK/American company; a French company will realise instantly what you are trying to do because Socata is prob99 their only customer

A lot of the Socata parts are Renault parts, used on various 1970s models but still manufactured for the car market. For example I am advised that the flap motor is a Renault windscreen wiper motor which is still available (2018) from the Czech manufacturer for about 12 euros!

A lot of Socata parts are made by very small and “well hidden” (no website, etc) French firms, some of which make bits for the homebuilder market, which Socata then recertify under their Part 145 / Part 21 approvals.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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