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Homebuilt regulations UK CAA letter 12/20

Actually, LeSving, of the three people who picked up your comment about how to not be too worried about the permit requirements, I don’t think any of them is a Brit

Where would one find UK regs on homebuilt privileges by airspace class? Specifically, could one fly an Evolution at FL280, IFR, assuming it is N-reg and thus has no “VFR only” permit restriction?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Well, I don’t like the constant nagging about flying anything other than an ICAO plane (IFR or VFR or whatever) requires flying “under the radar”, or bending the rules, or simply don’t caring about any rules or regulations at all. There is a pattern to it though. The nagging always comes from a few guys from the UK lecturing everybody else. Even when I present solid documentation from a Spanish guy flying across the poles in his heavily modified, IFR capable RV-8 with a Spanish C of A, this somehow isn’t “valid”, or just ignored. Why is that?

Anyway, I’m out of here. Happy new year

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

What has that got to do with anything?

It’s a response to your constant swipes at “UK centric” this and that.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

LeSving, have you ever flown (GA) outside Norway?

What has that got to do with anything? Where else can you similar “instructions” as that UK note?. But yes. I have flown lots of gliding and TMG in Belgium. That’s were I learned to fly before going SEP later. Have you ever flown in in Scandinavia? I mean actually flown, not just autopilot to/from commercial airports in sunshine?

It doesn’t seem you like any input except your own opinion on this anyway, so what’s the use.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

only in the UK by the looks of it, where every little detail has to be written explicitly on a piece of paper.

Other places put more emphasis on, let’s say freedom and airmanship, common sense

This UK centric way of looking at things, just doesn’t work elsewhere. It isn’t applicable.

LeSving, have you ever flown (GA) outside Norway?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Cobalt wrote:

That special attitude takes two forms

  1. the tenacity to meticulously research what permissions are required, and where necessary obtain prior permission for flights abroad, and accept the somewhat arbitrary restrictions that are sometimes imposed (e.g., day VFR only)
  2. the willingness to ignore the required permissions and go anyway, and accept the risks that come with that.

Maybe, but very black and white. It’s more a representation of the theoretical extremes, not necessarily the reality. It seems to be the case only in the UK by the looks of it, where every little detail has to be written explicitly on a piece of paper. Other places put more emphasis on, let’s say freedom and airmanship, common sense. Looking at that CAA note, there is nothing like that in the Nordic countries. Those arbitrary restrictions doesn’t exist, and that’s also the case at most other places.

This UK centric way of looking at things, just doesn’t work elsewhere. It isn’t applicable.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

i get the sense that in hungary i might be able to do some flying without a lot of regulations but no one will answer my questions about flying there with something like an rv-8

I looked up your post @magyarflyer and it seems to have got missed by everybody who might have replied. We get over 2k posts per month so many people miss a post unless it gets enough replies to form a thread So I promoted it to the home page in the hope it gets some response. BTW it would help getting a response if you filled in your profile a bit more. Some people won’t respond to questions from an empty profile especially if the location is not indicated, even approximately.

There is no doubt whatever that you can fly an RV in Hungary, or anywhere else in Europe for that matter. It is a very popular type over here. There are just the long term parking limits (not in all countries) and some airspace prohibitions on IFR in non-certifieds – various previous threads, the details of which I can’t remember.

i am already aware that my evolution would never fly there since i need to be at 28,000 feet to get the best of the PT-6A 135 and i will be darned if i am going to fly a TP at 2000 feet to keep the regs happy

That is indeed an issue in a range of countries but it doesn’t prevent 1 or 2 of them flying up there in Europe

i wish flying in europe could be like here in usa

Many people here wish the same, but it won’t happen for many reasons, most of them political.

The UK is fairly unusual with its 28 day long term parking limit. 6 months is the more common number in Europe. So if you are doing a tour around Europe, you have no problem. Whether you can fly the Evolution in the UK, IFR, FL280, I don’t know and don’t know even where to look.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Cobalt wrote:

That special attitude takes two forms

the tenacity to meticulously research what permissions are required, and where necessary obtain prior permission for flights abroad, and accept the somewhat arbitrary restrictions that are sometimes imposed (e.g., day VFR only) the willingness to ignore the required permissions and go anyway, and accept the risks that come with that.

This applies regardless of under which local national regulations non-ICAO-C of A aircraft are built, maintained and operated.

I wouldn’t claim that an experimental aircraft is ideal for international touring, but it is perfectly possible by obeying these two tenets. I have flown to Spain, Portugal, Italy, Switzerland, UK, Austria and over Germany in my homebuilt from France over the last 20 years with no bureaucratic bother.
In theory you need permission to enter Spain with an experimental aircraft and I have requested permission once or twice. Last time I asked, it was only available for a specified six month period in the year, so I stopped requesting permission.
Last year I had an accident at San Sebastian airport and all my papers were scrutinized. The Spanish authorities have not made any fuss and the French insurance company is dealing with the claim despite requesting copies of every conceivable document including my radio station license.
Simon

i praise lesving for his honesty and also appreciate the rules as per peter
unfortunately the stick for regulations keeps me from bringing my airplane to europe and enjoy my experimental flying after reading all the stuff about illegal entries and exits and permits and getting out of the law
i wish flying in europe could be like here in usa
i can go anywhere anytime as long as i dont run into a tca or do something stupid, no need to report to anyone, no charges for landing at any airport, as a matter of fact most airports will lend me a car to go get food while i stop for fuel or not, will never happen in europe
i get the sense that in hungary i might be able to do some flying without a lot of regulations but no one will answer my questions about flying there with something like an rv-8
i am already aware that my evolution would never fly there since i need to be at 28,000 feet to get the best of the PT-6A 135 and i will be darned if i am going to fly a TP at 2000 feet to keep the regs happy
what a waste, not being biased i told before i get anywhere here in usa and canada and mexico 280 knots burning 28 gall/.hr for 1400 miles wish i could to that up there
happy holidays
please send me some more hopeful news le sving

KHQZ, United States

LeSving wrote:

a special attitude

That special attitude takes two forms

  1. the tenacity to meticulously research what permissions are required, and where necessary obtain prior permission for flights abroad, and accept the somewhat arbitrary restrictions that are sometimes imposed (e.g., day VFR only)
  2. the willingness to ignore the required permissions and go anyway, and accept the risks that come with that.

This applies regardless of under which local national regulations non-ICAO-C of A aircraft are built, maintained and operated.

This forum is a place where people come for advice. The advice that – I am paraphrasing – an “experimental/homebuilt is best for international touring” is patently wrong in light of the above. This is the equivalent of saying that owning and operating a light aircraft is as easy as owning and operating a car.

I for one are glad that Peter, and others, keep correcting what is in their (and my) opinion misleading / bad advice, and I admire Peter for both sticking to his guns (by pushing back) while sticking to the principle of maintaining an open forum (by keeping the posts, even borderline ones). Especially in the face of what must be, at times, severe temptation…

Biggin Hill
36 Posts
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