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Osprey 2 registration issue

@Silvaire Yes this was to easy! It is still US Reg only “Expired” and with a Europe owner, is this possbile no trust?

EDAZ

Does an N-reg expire?

The FAA is running a new scheme now whereby some documents (the Cert of Registration, IIRC) are renewed every 3 years. In Europe, the US Trustee normally takes care of that for you, together with the FCC radio license.

An N-reg plane can be owned by your grandmother but the Cert of Registration will not be valid (i.e. it cannot fly except on a one-off ferry permit) unless it is owned by a US Citizen, a Green card holder, or a corporation whose shareholders are at least 75% in the aforementioned two categories.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I believe an N-registry airworthiness certificate does not expire (ever) unless the N-number is cancelled. The registration expires after 3 years meaning the plane can no longer be operated legally, and is (normally) renewed on line for $5 using a code that comes through the post when registration is due.

For this situation I think it would be necessary to get a new paper copy of the FAA airworthiness certificate, unless you’re lucky and its in the current aircraft records. A friend just did that for a plane that hadn’t flown since 1962. Then you renew the expired registration (under a US trust or other qualified entity). Based on my friends experience I’m guessing this would require an in person FSDO visit with other available aircraft documentation. IIRC my friend showed the airframe data plate and a recent photo of the rebuilt plane (really), plus old maintenance log books that he happened to have. The FSDO then printed a new airworthiness certificate and registration and handed them to him.

Once you’ve done all that I understand you could get approval to operate the FAA Experimental Category, US domestic Amateur Built, N-registry plane in Germany on an annually renewed basis.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 14 Jul 16:14

PS I should also mention that to get the plane registered, I believe you will need a bill of sale from the last FAA recorded owner.

For a valid annual condition inspection by an FAA A&P (not IA) mechanic the paper airworthiness certificate must be on display in the aircraft (it would be really, really good if it is in the existing aircraft records, waiting for reinstallation) and the FAA registration must be current.

Silvaire wrote:

For this situation I think it would be necessary to get a new paper copy of the FAA airworthiness certificate

Correct, but …

The hitch is getting a “copy” of the AW Cert., outside of the US.

You need to have a DAR re-issue the duplicate AW Cert and that means he will need to see the acft and it’s logs.

If the acft is not in perfect airworthy condition then the DAR will give a list of discrepancies that will need to be dealt with before he will issue the duplicate AW Cert. Further, you will have to pay his fee which is typically about 2000€ plus travel .

Just last month I was contacted for a very similar situation: The owner changed tail number on an FAA reg’d plane based in Europe. He naively contacted a DAR to issue another AW Cert but since the acft was undergoing maintenance at the time the DAR gave the owner a very long and onerous list of discrepencies, took his fees and left. That acft hes been grounded for over 2 years.

Last Edited by Michael at 15 Jul 06:48
FAA A&P/IA
LFPN

Was that on a non-certified aircraft, @Michael?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Was that on a non-certified aircraft,

Does not really matter since a new AW Cert needs to be issued and outside the US that requires a DAR, no matter what Category the acft belongs to.

FAA A&P/IA
LFPN

So that expired-N-reg Experimental plane could be basically worthless (depending on required corrective actions)?

However, what would be the DAR’s terms of reference for an Experimental ?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

So that expired-N-reg Experimental plane could be basically worthless (depending on required corrective actions)?

I would’nt say that in the case of the Osprey 2 since it IS on Italian reg, so it’s just trying to get it back on the FAA reg that will be difficult.
In the case of the already-FAA-reg’d acft I mentioned, it is indeed un-airworthy and hence just about worth the sum of it’s parts.

However, what would be the DAR’s terms of reference for an Experimental ?

That’s a legitimate question and I don’t know the answer, but you could say the same thing about the FSDO if it was in the US.

Last Edited by Michael at 15 Jul 10:33
FAA A&P/IA
LFPN

That’s a legitimate question and I don’t know the answer, but you could say the same thing about the FSDO if it was in the US.

Well, you get my drift

The airworthiness authority for when the owner is the builder is the owner.

The airworthiness authority for when the owner is not the builder is an A&P.

So the DAR should just need an A&P to sign the thing off, and then the DAR can add his $2000 signature

In the certified system, the IA signs it off (usually at an Annual inspection) and then the DAR adds his $2000 signature…

That’s if I understand it right.

Also, would it be relevant if the aircraft was never properly removed from the US reg and just placed on the Italian reg? In the certified system, you need an Export CofA (subject to some obscure exceptions e.g. a type provably originally built to US specs, which is how I did mine).

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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