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Help understand the best option for flying around Europe - LSA or UL

Mooney_Driver wrote:

I am totally disinterested in 500$ burger runs or “flying for flying’s sake”

For me it’s opposite more or less. I only fly for the sake of flying. There are so many cool things to do: aerobatics, bush/short field, gliding/towing, competitions and so on.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

To try to answer some of the questions you put directly.
There are many WT9 dynamics registered as ULM and flying in France.
On registry it does need a form of permit to ensure it conforms. After that there is no annual permit and it can be owner maintained. It is up to the owner to declare it is safe to fly. But there is no one to declare it to except yourself.
Flying from France across Spain and down through Morocco as far as Senegal is something done by many French ULM pilots.
The problems are;-
Flying.a ULM in Spain requires a class2 medical, although many ignore this requirement as they don’t need it in France.
Taking.a French ULM to Spain requires seeking.approval from the Spanish CAA. This is a reasonably simple procedure and the approval lasts 6 months. There is nothing stopping you applying for a further 6 months when it runs out.
Many ULM pilots who have both a PPL and class 2 medical, don’t appear to bother with this approval and just file a flight plan and get treated like any other GA aircraft.
A bigger problem is that when flown on a ULM licence you can not normally enter CAS which makes it difficult to clear C +I in Spain. However, there are AFAIU at least 2 airports in southern Spain which allows entry and exit to their airspace in order to clear C+I to go back and fore Morocco.
Flying ULMs through Morocco and down to Senegal poses no great problems.
The reason many French ULM pilots do this is that they can use French on the radio for much of the route there and back.
To get the most of ULM flying you really need to fly into the 1000s of friendly, tiny airfields around Europe and Africa. And to do that it is usually best to have some smattering of the local language. But worth it, even if its only Babel on your phone. A smile and politeness (eg PPR in advance, after all it is often their land ) can get you a great deal of fun and make a lot of new friends and all at low cost (compared to the larger airports that certified GA tend to be forced to use)
The ULM scene has a culture into itself
It is changing, and growing all the time.
The WT9 is a great little machine for travelling. Just look at the recent trip reports on here.
But it is not the only great little machine. Prices,of a new complete ULM run from just over €40,000 to €250,000. All must have things in common regulation wise, many use the same engine? gearbox and prop.The more you pay the better avionics fit and better finish inside and out.

France

gallois wrote:

Flying from France across Spain and down through Morocco as far as Senegal is something done by many French ULM pilots.

Some pilots have done it by skipping customs and smuggling fuel other than this can you name one single airport in Spain that allows extra-Schengen flight to Morocco, accepts UL/ULM and allow you to bring your own SP95 fuel?

In UL/ULM Ralleys or Toulouse-Dakar, of course, you can don’t have to land in Spanish ports of entry (all are ANEA): immigration & customs gets arranged in Muchamiel for you and you can carry fuel jerry cans all day along

Things may have changed recently to allow UL/ULM on ANEA airports but the bottle neck is the same: the bill is expensive and you have to use Avgas, in one year ATS asked everybody to land at Malaga in the middle of their flights instead of Muchamiel due to some miscommunication with organisers, I they forked 400€ each, some pilots still refused ATS instruction and flew as they liked anyway

Last Edited by Ibra at 03 Oct 15:43
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

I shall have to ask the guys at the club if they are there this weekend. If not the Owners club AGM is coming up later this month.
Some of them flew to Dakar and back this year. So they will know. I seem to remember they landed at Jerez to clear customs and immigration both ways, but I might have misheard.

France

I think that – flying France → French speaking bit of Africa – is a slightly different thing. It is quite popular in France for those that do “touring” but is easier because you need to only cross Spain, where nobody cares about anything

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I seem to remember they landed at Jerez to clear customs and immigration both ways

Would be good to know what was the arrangements as Jerez don’t accept ULM even when you have Spanish overflying permit, once you leave Spain, in Morocco & Senegal no one cares about ULM vs SEP, a friend flew Baby Jodel (ULM not SEP) to Essaouira other than ANEA airports, the rest was pretty smooth

Last Edited by Ibra at 05 Oct 14:00
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

It could be as simple as AENA personnel not knowing that it’s a ULM. Spanish ULMs have a number in their reg, unlike certifieds. French are all letters for both types. But it may be a thing of knowing but not caring. I’ve seen ULMs at AENA field LESB, however Son Bonet is not a customs field.

Private field, Mallorca, Spain

As I often write (and always get jumped on when I write it, while anybody else can say it freely ) nobody cares about this stuff.

And if you are talking about countries where English is not a widely spoken, or is “reluctantly spoken”, second language (we all know who these are; much of Europe actually, but Spain very much so) then you are usually looking at the only English speakers being upstairs in the tower, and they aren’t policing traffic, and that leaves you with just about nobody else giving a damn, or if they do know or notice, they aren’t going to bother to approach a foreign arrival.

Much of Europe is a different world… There is a whole load of stuff you can do in the right places, so long as nothing goes wrong.

And attitudes vary. Reminds me of that story, true story, where two women, from England IIRC, at least one obviously having a PPL, landed somewhere in Spain, and the airport manager wanted to speak to the PILOT. Eventually he climbed inside, looking in the back, under the seats, etc, looking for the PILOT.

I’ve had clearances, VFR, through Class A, in Spain and Italy. Had no IR then, and was flying in solid IMC

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I’ve had clearances, VFR, through Class A, in Spain and Italy. Had no IR then, and was flying in solid IMC

Seriously 😳

always learning
LO__, Austria

Peter wrote:

I’ve had clearances, VFR, through Class A, in Spain and Italy. Had no IR then

Had the same in UK…. wasn’t flying in solid IMC, though….

Last Edited by Steve6443 at 06 Oct 05:10
EDL*, Germany
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