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Help understand the best option for flying around Europe - LSA or UL

Yes it’s approved as “Night EASA LSA”

https://www.easa.europa.eu/en/downloads/7086/en

In principle yes, but EASA has approved of several exceptions.

Indeed it’s an exception,

I believe all FAA certified aircraft can flown at night if adequately equipped.. Many FAA LSA eligible aircraft including certified aircraft meeting LSA requirements can be flown at night, but you have to have a Private certificate to do it.

That was my understanding, I was referring to the aircraft being approved for night (pilots without night privileges can’t fly at night), I was tempted to get into gyrocopter flying at night in US

Last Edited by Ibra at 21 Sep 19:59
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Steve6443 wrote:

For example, a friend owns a Pipstrel Virus SW 100 LSA – it is currently on the German register but can be registered anywhere in Europe; the permit renewal in Germany costs 40€ a year. There is an EASA certified version – the Virus SW 121 – but there you have to use certified parts – basically, when looking at maintenance, take the price of non certified parts and add a zero at the end. If you’re interested, look at aircraft such as a Virus SW 100 LSA or perhaps the Dynamic WT-9 LSA – if they are from between 2011 – 2016, then likely they might be EASA permit aircraft and this is something I can highly recommend for cheap flying fun with few, if any, restrictions.

This is what I was looking to understand. I wonder if I bought a similar plane, could it be registered that way in France? Is it also a risk since one day they won’t renew the permit to fly?

LPPM / LFBL, Portugal

aart wrote:

This has changed. UL´s can fly higher than 1.000 ft AGL. It’s now 3000m (4000m upto 30 minutes). Don’t ask me why they publish it in m.. The jury is still out on whether they will be allowed in CAS. As to maintenance, I don’t know what the French or Portuguese CAA allow. In Spain there was a recent change towards ‘self-declaration of airworthiness’, a positive move.

This is news to me (but good news)! Regarding your question on keeping the plane in Portugal, yes, as long as once every 3 months you fly to Spain for an hour of other country. There are several planes here that do that and it is legal. I would register in in Portugal but they don’t recognize many models here.

LPPM / LFBL, Portugal

Seems like the advantages of CS-LSA are lost if night vfr is pursued (engine required acc. CS-E etc..).

https://www.easa.europa.eu/en/downloads/22012/en

always learning
LO__, Austria

Thanks a lot for that find Snoopy, it seems that NVFR in LSA comes with more caveats than NVFR in CS23

Meanwhile in today news from Spain, UL can fly higher than 1kft agl

https://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/consejodeministros/referencias/Paginas/2022/refc20220920cc.aspx

This has changed. UL´s can fly higher than 1.000 ft AGL. It’s now 3000m (4000m upto 30 minutes). Don’t ask me why they publish it in m.. The jury is still out on whether they will be allowed in CAS. As to maintenance, I don’t know what the French or Portuguese CAA allow. In Spain there was a recent change towards ‘self-declaration of airworthiness’, a positive move.

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Wingover wrote:

This is what I was looking to understand. I wonder if I bought a similar plane, could it be registered that way in France? Is it also a risk since one day they won’t renew the permit to fly?

Yes, it could be registered in France.

No, there is no risk because EASA is responsible for the airworthiness of the aircraft, therefore the NAA are only responsible for issuing the permit. That was my first question when buying the aircraft, I asked the LBA the exact same question. The response: why would we refuse the permit? If EASA accepts responsibility and you have a stamp saying it meets airworthiness criteria from an approved mechanic, then we will extend the permit, no questions asked….

If you were to buy (eg) a German registered LSA (D-Exxx), you could still keep it on (e.g.) the German register, even if you live in France…or transfer it to the French register.

Last Edited by Steve6443 at 21 Sep 21:18
EDL*, Germany

Snoopy wrote:

These are EASA PTF, but not LSA „in the current form“, right?

Yes, they were designed as an LSA but as the final rules for LSA weren’t established, they were sold with an EASA permit to fly. They are still LSA in the current form.

EDL*, Germany

johnh wrote:

As I’ve written elsewhere, I came to the conclusion that “flying to go somewhere” in Europe is next to impossible.

Frankly, I think you grossly exaggerate. I have crossed Europe several times VFR in the era of paper charts and later Jurassic handheld GPS (Garmin 96, anyone?) and never had a problem. Yes, it is more planning work than in the US and yes, there are local quirks, but it’s perfectly doable. You need to be flexible with time, but that applies to VFR trips anywhere. Today we also have much, much better wx products, which helps enormously. OTOH, back then (+/- 20 years ago) most big airports were still accessible to light GA, which is an aspect that certainly has become more difficult. NB, all my trips were done in certified airplanes.

as long as once every 3 months you fly to Spain for an hour of other country

I recommend checking the law underpinning that option. Whenever this came up in the past, and it did so many times, e.g. with the 2004 French proposal and the 2005 UK proposal to ban long term parking of N-regs, this was suggested on forums but I never saw anything supporting it. The only sure solution was to own a fleet of planes and keep just one of them at a time in the relevant country

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I recommend checking the law underpinning that option. Whenever this came up in the past, and it did so many times, e.g. with the 2004 French proposal and the 2005 UK proposal to ban long term parking of N-regs, this was suggested on forums but I never saw anything supporting it. The only sure solution was to own a fleet of planes and keep just one of them at a time in the relevant country

Yes, good idea to check. The exact wording in Spain for foreign UL stationing is that they cannot fly nor be stationed for more than 6 months. Many seem to think that you’re good to go again for another 6 months by just briefly hopping across a border, and they are wrong.

Private field, Mallorca, Spain
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