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Help understand the best option for flying around Europe - LSA or UL

Flying from Portugal over Spain is restricted to 1000f AGL which in summer must suck with thermals so I was told to go for LSA but then, can’t do your own maintenance like a french register ULM?? Is it true?

This has changed. UL´s can fly higher than 1.000 ft AGL. It’s now 3000m (4000m upto 30 minutes). Don’t ask me why they publish it in m.. The jury is still out on whether they will be allowed in CAS. As to maintenance, I don’t know what the French or Portuguese CAA allow. In Spain there was a recent change towards ‘self-declaration of airworthiness’, a positive move.

Are you sure you would be able to station a French-reg UL in Portugal permanently? Spain allows foreign reg UL’s for 6 months a year. Something similar may exist in Portugal.

As discussed to death here, UL allows you to use an enormous amount of aerodromes without any kind of hassle and avoid the ever increasing burocracy and limitations of many state-run fields.

Private field, Mallorca, Spain

LSA = EASA Certified, Day VFR, No permits

Are EASA CS-LSA DAY VFR only? I flew one PS28N at night with the owner, it was CAA CS-LSA registrated though but it was very equipped LED & BRS with two radios, tranponder and AP, NAV, VOR…I think EASA TC also says OK for night operations

This brings another dog from his sleep, can one fly CAA LSA in EASA land? can one fly EASA LSA in UK? I flew PS28 UK-France without even asking the question, is LSA as sub-ICAO standard mutually recognised between CAA and EASA now?

I am happy if anyone has an official answer? I think it’s fine between DGAC/CAA due to bilateral signoffs but I am not sure about other NAAs

Last Edited by Ibra at 21 Sep 17:52
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

johnh wrote:

Rinse and repeat for 30+ countries all doing things their own way.

This is a bit overstated. I understand coming from the US it’s quite a cultural shift and definitely more complicated. But decent flight planning with SkyDemon, perusing the AIP, and actually using ATC makes it more than doable. In my years of flying in the US I rarely used VFR flight following, and I kept up this tradition when first flying here. But I have since learned to always be on the radio. PROB90 they will keep you out of trouble if you miss something in flight planning even if they aren’t obligated to do so.

EHRD, Netherlands

EASA Definition Light Sport Aeroplane

Light Sport Aeroplane complies with the following criteria:

A Maximum Take-Off Mass of not more than 600 kg
A maximum stalling speed in the landing configuration (VS0) of not more than 45 knots CAS at the aircraft’s maximum certificated Take-Off Mass and most critical centre of gravity.
A maximum seating capacity of no more than two persons, including the pilot.
A single, non-turbine engine fitted with a propeller.
A non-pressurised cabin
These specifications apply to aeroplanes intended for “non-aerobatic” and for “VFR day” operation only.

The airworthiness code is ASTM International standard F2245.

always learning
LO__, Austria

Seems OK for NVFR in EASA TC

I don’t recall anything in EASA CS23 regarding specific “night certifications”? not even a basic requirement for electrical system to fly at night !

I think the reason was that CS23 was a copy past from US FAR23 where even sports and tailwheel pilots are allowed to legally fly at night on their basic PPL under VFR without that many requirements, actually there is none for NVFR: not even a requirement to have a radio for PCL lights

That copy past of US aircraft certification rules did forgot that pilots & aircraft in Europe can’t fly that esily at night due to psychological or cultural reasons, basic PPL having night restriction, regulators being allergic to GA at midnight, airport closing times, mandatory pseudo instrument rules

Last Edited by Ibra at 21 Sep 18:13
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Ibra wrote:

I think the reason was that CS23 was a copy past from US FAR23 where even sports and tailwheel pilots are allowed to legally fly at night on their basic PPL under VFR without that many requirements, actually there is none for NVFR: not even a requirement to have a radio for PCL lights

The relevant distinction under the FARs is between pilots holding an FAA private pilot certificate (the “sports and tailwheel PPL” comment is odd and has no basis in regulation), all of whom are night trained and rated, and FAA Sport Pilots, who are limited to Light Sport eligible aircraft and are not trained or rated for night flying.

I believe all FAA certified aircraft can flown at night if adequately equipped.. Many FAA LSA eligible aircraft including certified aircraft meeting LSA requirements can be flown at night, but you have to have a Private certificate to do it.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 21 Sep 19:01

Ibra wrote:

Are EASA CS-LSA DAY VFR only?

In principle yes, but EASA has approved of several exceptions.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Snoopy wrote:

LSA = EASA Certified, Day VFR, No permits

A Light Sport Airplane (LSA) is a simple two-seater with a maximum take-off weight of 600kg based on certification specifications CS-LSA published in 2011.

There are exceptions, for example you can find LSAs dating back from 2012 – 2016 which are NOT certified but are flown using a permanent EASA permit to fly – this means EASA are responsible for the safety of the aircraft, the local authorities issue a Permit to Fly. The benefits:

No certified parts, which means the aircraft and maintenance is cheaper to maintain plus you don’t have restrictions based on where you can fly it, no limitations in terms of airspace, landing at airfields, altitude flown, etc. Some can have their permits extended to fly NVFR, some can be used for flight training – it’s all something which EASA defines in the flight conditions.

For example, a friend owns a Pipstrel Virus SW 100 LSA – it is currently on the German register but can be registered anywhere in Europe; the permit renewal in Germany costs 40€ a year. There is an EASA certified version – the Virus SW 121 – but there you have to use certified parts – basically, when looking at maintenance, take the price of non certified parts and add a zero at the end. If you’re interested, look at aircraft such as a Virus SW 100 LSA or perhaps the Dynamic WT-9 LSA – if they are from between 2011 – 2016, then likely they might be EASA permit aircraft and this is something I can highly recommend for cheap flying fun with few, if any, restrictions.

EDL*, Germany

These are EASA PTF, but not LSA „in the current form“, right?

Last Edited by Snoopy at 21 Sep 19:34
always learning
LO__, Austria

Seems OK for NVFR in EASA TC
I don’t recall anything in EASA CS23 regarding specific “night certifications”? not even a basic requirement for electrical system to fly at night !

Are you sure you copied the applicable paper (LSA)? Is the PS28 maybe also available as a CS23 aircraft?

Last Edited by Snoopy at 21 Sep 19:33
always learning
LO__, Austria
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