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Help understand the best option for flying around Europe - LSA or UL

I found that all the a/c I fly (and none of them got ADS-B out) are tracked correcly on FlightAware, for example, using MLAT.

What country are you in?

I just looked at the tail number of the plane I flew on Tuesday. Flightaware does show bits and scraps of flights, though neither of mine and probably 1 in 10 of flights in general. No idea how it is doing it. For sure the aircraft doesn’t have ADS-B.

LFMD, France

@johnh, UK, mostly in the south.
I think the rule of thumb is if it is just mode-S there are more breaks in the line, especially if you are flying low AGL.

EGTR

johnh wrote:

that isn’t true in France and I don’t think anywhere else in Europe either. If you don’t have ADS-B and aren’t on an IFR flight plan then FR24 and Flightaware don’t know about you.

If you are in France receiving FIS service (SIV squawk) you will not show on FR24

If you are,
- IFR Mode-S on 2000/1000 or I-FPL squawk you will appear in FR24 if you are high enough
- VFR Mode-S on 7000 you will appear in FR24 if you are high enough

Those without or switched off transponders will not show up, those with Mode C/A only don’t show up in FR24, these are well sought after by those who value discretion, seller: ‘sorry, it has ModeC only’, buyer: ‘Brilliant, no need to upgrade for ModeS !’

France, has not mandated ModeS yet and lot of VFR fleet out there is still ModeC

FLARM, ADS-B…will show up but yes there are not that many

Last Edited by Ibra at 23 Sep 10:00
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

If you don’t have ADS-B and aren’t on an IFR flight plan then FR24 and Flightaware don’t know about you.

FR24 and FA use MLAT and do show Mode S emitters. These days FA is far better than FR24. In fact FR24 is seriously broken now.

However they suppress certain txp codes; I think 7000 is mostly suppressed but not always (my a/c shows up all the time on 7000). Do a search here on FR24 and there is a lot of discussion, although nobody knows the actual rules they use.

Mode C is not visible and lots of people who fly only VFR (officially) are staying with Mode C, for “privacy”.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

johnh wrote:

f you don’t have ADS-B and aren’t on an IFR flight plan then FR24 and Flightaware don’t know about you.

If you have FLARM you are seen as well. And IFR is not a criteria, the moment you radiate ADSB-out you are on it. Mode S is tracked by M-LAT.

I usually don’t mind that, but it is a factor if people are after you, it can be a problem. And obviously, since Mode S, ATC and therefore the CAA’s de facto have a full tracking history of every airplane airborne.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

Ibra wrote:

If you are,
- IFR Mode-S on 2000/1000 or I-FPL squawk you will appear in FR24 if you are high enough
- VFR Mode-S on 7000 you will appear in FR24 if you are high enough

“High enough” is the key thing. Pure mode S requires MLAT which means that you have to be in range of at least 3 ground stations. With ADS-B one is enough.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Wingover wrote:

Are you able to operate such a plane (German registered) with a French LAPL license? You can’t with a UL registered.

Yes you can. Such an aircraft is EASA registered hence needs an EASA licence. Minimum is LAPL. Doesn’t matter which state of registry the licence is from, nor which nation the aircraft is registered in.

EDL*, Germany

Peter wrote:

I’ve just got back from a 10 day trip to Croatia and Sicily. I was in IMC for about 1 minute. It could have been done VFR in a homebuilt or UL. The most important thing you want is long range.

And a comfortable plane…. no point having range if you get cramps after an hour or so….

johnh wrote:

To be positive for once… that isn’t true in France and I don’t think anywhere else in Europe either. If you don’t have ADS-B and aren’t on an IFR flight plan then FR24 and Flightaware don’t know about you. I constantly see stuff flying overhead and FR24 shows nothing.

You can tell FR24 + FA not to display your aircraft… I know of a company CEO with a private jet (CJ2+) and the only way you see where he is flying is because of the flight plans which appear on FR24 but not the aircraft itself. Once the aircraft has departed / flight plan is cancelled, the flight plan vanishes… he prefers it that way…

EDL*, Germany

Come on, let’s not get poor Wingover all scared and confused. He should just do it and enjoy, either renting or owning (or sharing ownership). But, first go through the proper flowchart.

Private field, Mallorca, Spain

aart wrote:

Come on, let’s not get poor Wingover all scared and confused. He should just do it and enjoy, either renting or owning (or sharing ownership). But, first go through the proper flowchart.

Hahaha, okay, yes I am going to buy one. Don’t like renting since it’s flying for the sake of flying. Based on the stock market today, maybe I should wait a few months.. looks like deals might be coming

Portugal
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