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Misc. electronic conspicuity boxes: Garrecht / Air Avionics / TRX-1500A / Air Connect / PAW / PilotAware / LXnav / PowerMouse / FlarmMouse / Flarm / Uavionix / SkyEcho / SafeSky

arj1 wrote:

Those with a good internet in the air and good coverage are happy with SafeSky and don’t want to consider the situation when they’ve lost the internet connection. The others (like me) have got access to the likes of PAW, which does pretty much the same with ground-based station, plus:

I´m personally considering SafeSky an addition to my hardware based ADS B and PowerFlarm. I pick up a lot more traffic from SafeSky than my Sky Echo in the same area, but I get all sources displayed at the same time,on SafeSky and SkyDemon. The combo is a cheap winner. As a standalone SafeSky is better than nothing at all. It´s not harder than that.

Last Edited by Yeager at 27 May 18:51
Socata Rallye MS.893E
Portugal

This debate comes down to why not install absolutely everything in the above list

Why not?

There is a cost but more importantly it would be a mess. There is no unified display device. Why not?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

We should discuss 2 things: the accuracy of the technology, and on the other side, the potential need for it.

I was reluctant with safesky at the beginning for all we have said: it’s internet, it’s not free (also not that expensive), but after a few flights, I think it can improve the SA wrt the other traffics for a reduced price with no more device in the plane, seeing that we can still received position with 3G network at 3000 agl (and sometimes much more…)
I was (and still is) fond of stratux, but the accuracy it can have is balanced with the small range, and most of time it only shows me liners. + a succion cup, a battery, …
And you don’t emit your position with it.

All the more than I am fighting with the FIs of my club, a lot of which are 60+ and reluctant to electronics devices and software, they do love their paper map which will not fail in case of low battery – but you will need twice the amount of time to retrieve your information if you have your glasses…
But they are not all like this and bringing a safesky platform in plane could have its value with its simplicity, especially in the crowded area of the south east of France.

I have never eared of a mid-air in our region, but I have already a few cases (5) where I wasn’t very far from one… should we wait for a mid-air to bring solution? I think it’s a help, let’s take it as an help.

E.G. Flarm has had a very good effect on the number of glider mid-air these last year but there were a significant number, because glider are all chasing the same things on the same places, thermics, and they don’t often see each other and their radio frequencies could differs (usually they stay on the one of their base). They all recognize it, and now flarm is spreading on the UL scene.

Last Edited by greg_mp at 27 May 19:15
LFMD, France

Peter 27-May-24 19:13 38
“This debate comes down to why not install absolutely everything in the above list

Why not?

There is a cost but more importantly it would be a mess. There is no unified display device. Why not?“”

SkyDemon (SD) and even better SD in split screen mode (combined) with SafeSky as designated TA display, provides independent ADS-B + Flarm (Sky Echo direct) and SafeSky traffic in ONE display (iPad or similar), with data from independent (also from the internet) sources. Missing is Mode C/S traffic (at least w vertical input).

Last Edited by Yeager at 27 May 20:00
Socata Rallye MS.893E
Portugal

SD is £100/year, no? And it runs only on a tablet, which admittedly most people do fly with but it is poor safety to be looking down onto a tablet to check for traffic, and looking up at a tablet mounted higher up tends to result in an installation which obscures some instruments.

We’ve done that “tablet mounting” stuff all before of course…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

SDVFR can display the traffic from safesky, I bet SD will be able to do it soon, it would avoid sharing the screen.
The issue with tablet is – it has to be on the dashboard, or it’s not visible. A smartphone is ok to display a moving map with traffic, but if the tablet is not on the dashboard, I would say it’s better to have it on side pocket and use it only to display static stuff (approach or Vac chart).

LFMD, France

I have never heard of a mid-air in our region

There was one near my favourite airport Barcelonnette a few years ago – two gliders, nobody survived.

LFMD, France

Gliders are a different thing though. Usually very close together, and circling, so often out of mutual view. They use their own popular devices – mostly Pilotaware AFAIK? Fortunately the more serious flyers also have Mode C or S so show up on TCAS1.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Gliders are a different thing though. Usually very close together, and circling, so often out of mutual view. They use their own popular devices – mostly Pilotaware AFAIK? Fortunately the more serious flyers also have Mode C or S so show up on TCAS1.

FLARM mostly.

EGTR

Peter wrote:

Peter27-May-24 21:0041
SD is £100/year, no? And it runs only on a tablet, which admittedly most people do fly with but it is poor safety to be looking down onto a tablet to check for traffic, and looking up at a tablet mounted higher up tends to result in an installation which obscures some instruments.

We’ve done that “tablet mounting” stuff all before of course…

Yes, about 120euro/year, with that you´re not only getting a map you´re getting a one-stop planning tool, you´re getting a lot of handy information easily available, flight plan filing option (additional small cost). This is of course a different conversation. Yes, it runs on a tablet like the majority of other useful applications do!

Regarding looking down, whether it´s for navigation or traffic.
I believe we´ve all learned to navigate by reading aviation navigation maps in our lap. Look up, look down, look up and the whole nine yards.
So, @Peter", with this traffic awareness discussion. Which is is preferable? To have “traffic awareness” on your iPad, in your lap? OR no electronic traffic awareness at all?
The world is not always ideal. Different pocket sizes and different priorities in life. This current discussion is very much about SafeSky and it´s benefits/drawbacks to traffic awareness. My view on it is clear, as stated.

Peter wrote:

Fortunately the more serious flyers also have Mode C or S so show up on TCAS1.

A fraction of gliders have that. What they have is likely Flarm, and now SafeSky

greg_mp wrote:

greg_mp27-May-24 21:1042
SDVFR can display the traffic from safesky, I bet SD will be able to do it soon, it would avoid sharing the screen.

SkyDemon (SD) does the same already, if you look carefully at my iPad photo screenshot, you´ll see the same traffic displayed on both SD and SafeSky (SS).
I´ve come to appreciate using the iPad “split screen” with both (as on the photo screenshot) SD and SS displayed simultaneously in areas with a lot of targets. Maybe it´s because I´m so used to the old style TCAS display, but certainly also because I´m used to the symbiology of TCAS. I personally wish SD would offer the “classic” TCAS symbiology, as an option, as overlay on the SD map (as opposed to current ADS-B style).

Last Edited by Yeager at 28 May 05:57
Socata Rallye MS.893E
Portugal
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