Capitaine wrote:
Just read a short article about the French-made Neurone, which has the selling point of compatibility with most other technologies (other units, ADS-B out, mode C and S, plus Flarm shortly). The unit and antenna is €750, plus €78 for an optional cable to link to your transponder. Discounts available for large orders. Display is either through their app or your favourite moving map via GDL90. Future article to follow once the magazine has completed the air tests with ATC at Aix-les-Milles.
It looks to be a copy of PilotAware.
Mode S and C is only Altitude and estimated distance.
Given that ADSB is the de facto standard I do not understand why companies persist in going their own way
Because you sell more hardware – IF you can shift nonstandard hardware 
This method was perfected in the IT business, decades ago. It works, while it works.
Mode S and C is only Altitude and estimated distance.
It always will be… no simple way around that. Until ADS-B OUT becomes as common as transponders are today. It is working in that general direction but quite slowly, via installed (certified) installations, plus the “velcro and suction pad” community which I don’t see ever getting a critical mass, especially with so many competing and mutually incompatible products out there.
And the scene is clouded by dodgy schemes like this totally cynical one which the CAA here is doing purely as a CYA / due diligence exercise for the first case of a GA-drone collision in Class G. Assisted no doubt by some interesting employment transfers from the regulatory/enforcement field to the electronic conspicuity industry
Ultimately, in the UK and probably other places, adoption of conspicuity gear is limited by the CAA “busting” 100% of infringers, and while currently they are doing just the transponding crowd (much of which has switched off or moved to Mode A) monitoring ADS-B is an obvious progression because you can monitor the bottom half of the UK with a single receiver, and then fairly trivial software can pick out infringers who can then be “discovered” among radar data, and pursued.
Peter_Mundy wrote:
Given that ADSB is the de facto standard I do not understand why companies persist in going their own way
Well, when Pilot Aware first came out it was very cheap to make, and totally portable. (About €100 for parts)
So for someone with a limited budget or someone who was renting and had no ability to install equipment, it was a real option and a real enhancement to safety.
It’s not perfect. But is a lot better than nothing, which is the only alternative for a lot of people.
A €750 device….not sure there is a market for that. At those prices you really ought to be looking at paying a bit more to get ADS-B in/out.
Doesn’t Stratux get you ADS-B in for about $100? Isn’t the problem, this side of the pond, is getting enough targets to do ADS-B out, which most people won’t do, because they don’t have to, and simply transmitting in mode A/C/S is sufficient?
Peter wrote:
Mode S and C is only Altitude and estimated distance.It always will be… no simple way around that.
I’m just restating it as the marketing material is a little economical with the full details.
Peter_Mundy wrote:
why companies persist in going their own way
Because there is no (quick) money in getting a proper ADS-B device on the market. Even in Australia and UK with CAP1391, you have some testing and approval costs. For other countries, you effectively need to get a whole transponder and GNSS certified.
Because there is a perceived niche in the market for electronic with is not “installed” hence bypassing the cost of STC/Mod and the need to use a proper avionics installer.
There is a middle ground with traffic systems, you can fit PowerFlarm or the Air Avionic AT-1 under CS-STAN. With hard wired audio, visual display on your Garmin GPS map , discreet inputs ( voice warning priority & Approach modes) these units have a lot to offer.
Being properly installed in the aircraft the units don’t suffer from antenna shielding by the airframe ( the antennas being on the outside ) so are much more reliable.
The units also output data GPS & traffic data via Bluetooth for those using PED’s.
I would disagree with those who say ADSB out is not happening in Europe, in the last month or so three customers have specified the ADSB unit when buying Trig transponders and another two have retrofitted the GPS unit to enable ADSB out.
I am looking for opinions on best value for money aircraft addition(s) of avionics/instrumentation to improve aircraft “visibility” – “see and be seen”.
I have a simple, low cost, VFR certified Socata Rallye with Trig TT31 mode S Transponder and ADS-B out capability (that I have NOT yet activated).
No intentions of moving aircraft to IFR cert., nor installing Glass, on this airframe.
I have SkyDemon on iPad, conveniently installed at glareshield instrument panel, for all VFR navigation, and the 50H+ I´ve flown with the airplane, it has never failed a single second – it´s just awesome!
I currently have no GPS installation.
I´m flying VFR in Class C, Class D and Class G (VFR uncontrolled) airspaces, primarily in Southern Europe (Portugal, Spain and less France) where few low flying light airplanes, and not much glider activity in general (at least in PT), have Flarm installed and some have ADS B out but it´s also not really “big” – but hopefully and presumably this will change in the future. Mode S is probably more widely installed .
“Visibility” systems available, as far as I know are (not limited to):
Transponder Mode C
Transponder Mode S
ADS B IN and OUT
FLARM IN and OUT
Avionics/Instrumentation available (not limited to):
PowerFlarm Fusion w. Traffic Display (can be used for non certified ADS-B out (SIL = 0) on TT31 transponder)
AirTraffic (AT-1) w. Display
Funke TM350 (or TM250) – (can be used (as far as I know) for non certified ADS-B out (SIL = 0) on TT31 transponder)
Trig TN72 GPS receiver + TA70 GPS antenna – (connecting to current Trig TT31 Mode S transponder for certified ADS-B out (sil = 1)
SkyEcho (2) – I´m in continental Europe (NO ADS B out transmit allowed).
iPad (GPS) w. SkyDemon (SD) display.
I am currently leaning towards a setup with a “simple” certified GPS system (Trig) for certified ADS B out (sil=1) via my currently installed mode S transponder to “be seen”, and supplementing this with a SkyEcho 2 to receive ADS-B in and Flarm in to be displayed (WIFI/BT) on iPad w. SD.
This setup lacks the Flarm out and Transponder Mode S (and C) in.
This is a hardware investment of about 1500 euros (ex. vat), and CS-STAN installation of Trig GPS and receiver (can´t be that much). Simple setup that seems to fit a simple airplane.
There is also the option of installing one of the PowerFlarm/AT-1/Funke TM350, and use their uncertified GPS source (sil=0) connected to my current mode S transponder. Obviously, most certified medium and large airplanes already have TCAS installed and would already “see” my mode S detail, even if they have filtered out (not displaying) ADS B in sil=0 (uncertified GPS) traffic. The PowerFlarm seems to additionally require the installation of a dedicated Traffic Display.
These systems would allow for transponder Mode S (and possibly mode C) non directional traffic (only proximity and vertical distance).
This option is more costly from a hardware and installation point and it leave me with an uncertified ADS B out system.
As much as I would like to have transponder Mode S (and C) in, it seems to me like it only has limited positives since it lack direction, and flying in congested Class C airspace I reckon it would probably be switched off or ignored anyways (cry wolf), but I have no experience. Proper TCAS systems would be only good Mode S – and obviously this is NOT an option in my case.
Thoughts, ideas and opinions are welcome. Cheers.
Garmin Aera 660 as a GPS source for the Trig transponder?
Bathman wrote:
Garmin Aera 660 as a GPS source for the Trig transponder?
A quick glance at the specs of the G 660, and I think it would only (if even possible) qualify for an EASA uncertified GPS for ADS B out (sil = 0).
