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GTX330, GNS530 and traffic information

In which European countries combination of Mode S transponder and capable MFD gives traffic information via Mode S features i.e. without additional TCAS box?

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

None AFAIK.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Hm ... I remember when I was ferry flying my TB20 from Netherlands to Croatia I had traffic info on GNS. The route was from EHSE to LDZA - little bit of Netherlands, Belgium, Germany and Austria. It was three years ago, I was focused on flying :) rather than looking various features and taking care where actually I was :) so I don't remmember where I got it.

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

But what is the mechanism by which it could receive traffic info?

EGTK Oxford

Are you sure those traffic targets were not lightning discharges from the stormscope?

But what is the mechanism by which it could receive traffic info?

I am no expert on this (doesn't stop me posting does it ) but AIUI Mode S traffic is implemented via 1090ES (the 1090MHz extended squitter data channel implemented in Mode S packets) whereby the ground station, which obviously knows its traffic picture because that is the SSR radar station itself, transmits the coordinates of each radar target (perhaps with some filtering of stuff they don't want you to see) up the 1090ES channel, so everybody with a Mode S transponder, connected to a compatible multifunction display, gets a copy of the traffic.

At least that is what they get in the USA, in the areas where this was implemented.

The Americans provided TIS as a carrot to Mode S adoption, whereas in Europe there is no need for carrots - you just introduce a law

To provide TIS, the ground station needs to spend a bit of money on hardware and software. It's all off the shelf stuff. I don't know the cost, but very vaguely recall it is in the region of low 6 digits, max.

It wasn't done in the UK, but maybe somebody in Europe did buy the equipment...?

Are you sure those traffic targets were not lightning discharges from the stormscope?

The symbols should be clearly different. Normally, on my KMD550 anyway, lightning shows as crosses when in the stormscope screen and as lightning symbols when in the map screen.

What would suprise me more is that it actually worked at all, given that the (European, presumably) installer would have had no way to test it. The chance of something like this "just working", given the installer config that needs to be done just-right in both the GTX330 and the MFD, is IMHO close to zilch.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Are you sure those traffic targets were not lightning discharges from the stormscope?

This one made my day

BTW I don't have stormscope attached to GNS - I have separate WX1000 with its own screen.

What would suprise me more is that it actually worked at all, given that the (European, presumably) installer would have had no way to test it. The chance of something like this "just working", given the installer config that needs to be done just-right in both the GTX330 and the MFD, is IMHO close to zilch.

AFAIK It's just about connecting GTX330 to GNS530 with proper cable and configuring communication protocol on both devices.

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

I am no expert on this (doesn't stop me posting does it ) but AIUI Mode S traffic is implemented via 1090ES (the 1090MHz extended squitter data channel implemented in Mode S packets) whereby the ground station, which obviously knows its traffic picture because that is the SSR radar station itself, transmits the coordinates of each radar target (perhaps with some filtering of stuff they don't want you to see) up the 1090ES channel, so everybody with a Mode S transponder, connected to a compatible multifunction display, gets a copy of the traffic.

Is'nt the collective term for this also known as ADS-B ? I have a GTX330 and a GNS430, but I cant see traffic because whats needed is the rollout of ADS-B. Is that right?

There may also be a config option to enable it.

EGTK Oxford

Is'nt the collective term for this also known as ADS-B ? I have a GTX330 and a GNS430, but I cant see traffic because whats needed is the rollout of ADS-B. Is that right?

It's all related. If you google on e.g.
1090ES TIS
you can fill your boots with reading material.

My understanding is this:

ADS-B uses the same 1090ES data channel as TIS.
ADS-B is a continuous transmission of your position and altitude, several times per second.
ADS-B transmission (ADS-B out) is supported by some transponders; I believe a current GTX330 will do it.

But to receive ADS-B you need an ADS-B in capability, which is not the same as ADS-B out. Plus you need something to display the stuff on...

My goode olde 1990s hardware is not compatible with ADS-B (except I do have the GTX330 itself, from 2005) so I tend to skim this stuff, but it is a hot topic in the USA where the FAA is mandating ADS-B out from 2020, or something like that. Then, anybody with ADS-B in (and a compatible MFD) will get traffic info, which won't need any ground support - just like FLARM except almost nobody uses FLARM.

In Europe, it is virtually certain that VFR traffic OCAS will be exempted from any ADS-B mandate, just like they are mostly exempted from Mode S, so IMHO the value of ADS-B as "TCAS" will be poor.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
14 Posts
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