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Latest on 8.33 requirements (merged)

In Sweden updates are coming with regular AIRAC cycles. I have seen a few early updates announced in NOTAMs. However I have not seen any 8.33 related SUPs.

ESME, ESMS

Dimme wrote:

In Sweden updates are coming with regular AIRAC cycles. I have seen a few early updates announced in NOTAMs. However I have not seen any 8.33 related SUPs.

There is an AIC with the transition schedule for towers/AFIS and some terminal controls. Most changes seem to happen this autumn.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Hi there!

Sorry to ask, but reading 77 pages is a little bit boring. What’s the current status for Sweden and Germany? Can I still plan my VFR flight to ESMQ and EDDH without 8.33 on board or now I can fly only in G airspace?

Last Edited by pshz at 15 Apr 09:09
EVCA

pshz wrote:

Sorry to ask, but reading 77 pages is a little bit boring. What’s the current status for Sweden and Germany? Can I still plan my VFR flight to ESMQ and EDDH without 8.33 on board or now I can fly only in G airspace?

In Sweden, normal EASA rules apply. I you fly in airspace where radio communication is required, you need 8.33. So for VFR without 8.33 keeping to class G airspace (or class E, if Sweden had that) would be your only option but that is not enough as you also have to stay out of RMZ’s.

(Note: Sweden currently doesn’t use the term RMZ but it will be introduced later this spring. For all practical purposes TIZ and TIA are RMZ’s.)

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Can it be portable? If installed permanently, can only one station be 8.33 for VFR?

EVCA

No idea about handhelds but EASA requires only one radio. If you have two, 1 × 8.33 and 1x 25 is legally ok, VFR or IFR.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I know it was also discussed before, but does it worth to replace KX155 with GNC255 instead of obsolete and crazy expensive KX165? Tech says it’s 1500EUR. Is it really so hard job?

EVCA

Given that a GNC255 lists around 4k, plus installation of course, your tech is going to be awfully busy installing them for 1.5k

Various previous threads on installing a KX165A/8.33. It can be used to replace a KX155 (non “A”) subject to certain precautions. The net cost is likely to be similar to the above, although there is the argument that it is old kit and King are nearly finished in the avionics business.

@GarryIAE might have some input on current installation options.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Good Morning all

There’s not too much I can offer in terms of which Nav/Com to choose, it is pretty much down to personal preference really and which option best suits you and your aircraft, the KX 165A is naturally an “easier install” if you already have a KX 155/165 although the KX 165A is only available in 28v. Mid Continent have now brought out the TC-230 which is a small lightweight 14-28VDC converter making the KX 165A an option for 14v aircraft. Being a more modern unit, the Garmin GNC 255A has some nice features like a database look up for frequencies and an airport identifier below the frequency you have selected and in stby if you hook the unit to a compatible GPS.

From a certification aspect, Garmin have a Minor change available that covers most of the GA fleet for the GNC 255A, for the KX 165A your installer can use CS-STAN as a basis to approve the installation. I can’t really comment on labour costs to install although I am happy to quote you if you are interested!

Also to clarify on whether you need to replace just one or both of your radio’s with 8.33, EASA state that “any operating radio” should be 8.33, naturally that can be interpreted for the 2nd radio as “if I don’t operate it then it can stay as 25khz”. The point to understand is that a 25Khz radio has a large bandwidth and has the potential to transmit across 6 adjacent 8.33kz channels, so even if the ground station you are working is still on a 25khz frequency there is a chance you could be interfering on an adjacent channel especially at higher altitudes. So for me the thought to get in your mind is that if you only do one radio then you effectively only have one radio. If you can accept that then fine but if not then you might want to look at budgeting for the other radio to be replaced at some point.

Hope that helps!

EGTC, United Kingdom

GarryIAE wrote:

EASA state that “any operating radio” should be 8.33

Can you say where they state that? I can’t find it in the relevant EU directive (1079/2012). Indeed, that directive states (Article 2 paragraph 5):

Radios intended to operate exclusively in one or more frequency assignments that will remain in 25 kHz channel spacing shall not be required to have the 8,33 kHz channel spacing capability.

If the ground station you are working is still on a 25khz frequency there is a chance you could be interfering on an adjacent channel especially at higher altitudes.

As long as you are not using such a frequency above any maximum published altitude, there shouldn’t be any adjacent 8.33 channels within range.

In that situation it shouldn’t make any different what kind of radio you use anyway. An 8.33 kHz radio tuned to a 25 kHz channel will apply the same bandwidth and tolerances as would a 25 kHz radio.

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 16 Apr 10:07
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden
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