Hi,
I’m about a year into the ownership journey so far. C172, based in the UK, shared with 4 others. We flew about 165h in total this year, but it cost us a lot more than we expected, as we ended up doing:
And we expect to do another annual in early 2023 when we’ve run another 35 hours.
The question I have is, which bit of regulation says we have to take the plane apart every 100h? There are 3 recurring ADs that I know about (seat rails etc) that are strictly applied at 100h, but I thought there were some lighter-weight checks we could do at 100h and 150h if within 12 months of the last annual.
The shop (who we trust) says otherwise – we can do a 100h but it’s the same work as the annual minus a bit of paperwork – it just seems a bit crazy that we end up having to run twice as much “big maintenance” as we expected and so 200hr/yr costs 2x as much in fixed maintenance as 100hr/yr.
Thanks,
Winston
When I look into the inspection report of my Piper Comanche I read under notes, item 2 (b):
Quote
2. Inspections or operations are to be performed as indicated by a “O” at the 50 or 100 hour inspection interval. […]
(a) The 50 hour inspection accomplishes preventive maintenance, lubrication and servicing as well as inspecting of critical components.
(b) The 100 hour inspection is a complete inspection of the airplane, identical to an annual inspection.
NOTE: A log book entry should be made upon completion of any inspections.
I don’t think there’s any more thing to be added? I think the most notorious reason for any severe damage in a light aircraft is vibration (and flutter, that is, also some sort of vibration). And this depends on the hours flown. So to make any 100 hours inspection a full inspection is not too bad, I think.
Where is the 100hr service mandated?
The only case I know of is the FAA regime, where you need a 100hr on a commercially operated aircraft, or your own private one if you train other people in it.
Yes; the 100hr is a big service but do you need it? I was on G for a few years and never heard of such a thing.
See also here.
Thank you both @UdoR and @Peter.
I conclude from both your messages and the linked thread that flying 200hr/yr does indeed require two large inspections and two 50h checks.
I didn’t think we were being misled, but we had been going through our bills and trying to determine our costs for 200hr/yr instead of 100 and I, personally, was surprised to find that hour 101 was quite so expensive.
Peter’s comment is, however, as valuable as the other.
The question is not what the shop will do if you let them so. The question is what is in fact required to be done.
I am at present doing all maintenance as proposed by Piper. So the quotation from the Service Report is valid for me. That’ “Piper way” is a load full of stuff with all the Bulletins and Letters. I do this for my “learning curve”, to see all parts in the beginning, and to get a good feeling for my plane. So far I still get surprised at some point and I haven’t come across any “nonsense” where money was wasted. My examiner so far requires me to keep the “Piper way” anyhow, and I’m learning a lot from him. But I’ll eventually change to the so-called “minimum mx program” in future. You’re not even required to do a 50hr check then (however you may do so, of course). You may skip anything that’s not mandated by AD or what’s in the minimum program.
In the end you’ll have to talk to the examiner who signs off the work and ask him what he wants to see.
I don’t think the 100hr service is required at all.
Somebody is doing some revenue generation.
My understanding:
The Minimum Inspection Programme (MIP) under Part-ML has 100hr checks. So the choices are:
Really, for efficiency you want to be flying 110hrs per year (100 can be extended by 10). Unless you are getting close to 200, the hours after 100 are expensive now.
My comment is based on EASA regulation and Part-ML. I guess UK hasn’t changed much since brexit.
You can choose to follow the manufacturers maintenance data, including intervals. If they state that you only need to do an inspection every 500 hrs, then that would be ok. But most manufacturers do not.
But let’s toy with the idea that your manufacturer said that you were required to do extensive maintenance every 20 hrs of flight time. That would be disastrous for the ownership economy. However, with Part-ML, you could in that case decide to follow the Minimum Inspection Program(MIP) or follow the manufacturers data but make deviations from them.
The MIP has a limit of 110 hours or 13 months between the inspections. This means that you can not go further than that unless the manufacturer support so in their data.
The only difference I see that you can make is to get rid of the 50 hr checks, that would be legal in Part-ML unless there is an AD that requires that interval.
Flying 165 hrs a year complicates it somewhat, maintenance intervals makes more sense if you fly below 100 or even below 50 hrs a year. Then they are very easy to keep track of. :)
The Minimum Inspection Programme (MIP) under Part-ML has 100hr checks
I must be missing something huge here because that is completely ridiculous.
Does Part-ML have a schedule for this 100hr check?
A 100hr check, where there is a schedule, is practically an Annual.
The UK had a 150hr check but that is something else. It was pratically an Annual too, and was problematic for high-hour owners (I used to do just over 150hrs/year when I was G-reg) and is a problem for many syndicates.
Our situation is we’re on the MIP; obviously we want to do oil changes at least every 50h, and we have 3 recurring ADs on our airframe every 100h, which I believe means although we can vary the 50h, the 100h since last check of the ADs is a hard limit.
This all points in the same direction, that, for us, on G reg, there isn’t a bulk discount on hours, and we should be looking to fly in multiples of 100hr/yr as much as possible.
Fly310 wrote:
Flying 165 hrs a year complicates it somewhat, maintenance intervals makes more sense if you fly below 100 or even below 50 hrs a year.
We’re not going to be below 100hr/yr – I get close to that on my own! I suspect the others will use up a good chunk of the 35hr remaining to 200hr by April, but if they don’t, let’s arrange a EuroGA trip in March 2023 somewhere number-of-hours-left-minus-one/two hours away from EGTR :-D
