I want to fit a 125 litre Ferry Tank in the back of my PA28 which would be flown in weight and balance at all times. There is no STC for the Piper PA28 series which is amazing since there are thousands of them out there! In addition it seems to get an STC would cost £ 20,000
I have found the two UK CAA forms to fill in for one off Ferry Tank Permits
I have filled these in but my Engineer is a bit overloaded and it’s not really his forte (he’s fine plumbing it in, but to be honest the paperwork puts him off)
Is there anybody in the United Kingdom who has done this before? The one off cost to submit to the CAA is £ 627 payable in advance before they look at it so I don’t really want to put the forms in without a little advice
Thanks in advance
Is this a turtlepac ?
I cannot speak for the UK, but I have done this in Canada a number of times. In Canada, the flight permit is a common means to enable this flying, but it lacks the full authority of a C of A, and will come with a few operating limitations appropriate to the changed airplane. However, those changed limitations could also be operations heavier than the normal gross weight, with data to support that. Note that if you’re flying on a flight permit, rather than full C of A, you have to have acceptance of that flight permit for each authority’s airspace through which you fly. Example: When I flight permitted a turbine DC-3 from Canada to Germany, the operator had to have flight permit acceptance (before we left) from Denmark (for Greenland), Iceland, Ireland, UK, Holland, and Germany. Everyone said yes, but it was a lot of paperwork. An STC’d airplane does not require these special permissions.
In Canada, for an appropriate all metal tank, I could issue a serialized STC for a ferry fuel system for much less than the cost you mention, though the work the the airplane to install an STC compliant system would be fairly involved. Temporary systems can meet a lower standard of installation, but cannot be STC’d at all, only flight permit. There are several specific requirements for the plumbing and venting design. I have known a few planes (and flown one) where these were not correctly executed, and it did create fuel flow problems. It is important that the guidance material be followed, they are hard earned wisdoms! One design requirement is that the ferry fuel should be introduced to the fuel system in the vent space of the tank, which on a PA-28 is probably impossible. It is not intended that the engine can be run directly from the ferry fuel straight form the tank. I have not done a PA-28, so haven’t worked out how this could be done, but there must be a way…
At present, in Canada, the guidance material I have to use to issue an STC requires that the ferry tank be all metal, though it is very old guidance, and even Transport Canada staff have agreed that it should be updated [ to include Turtle Pacs]. I have used Turtle Pac tanks, and think that they are great, when used appropriately. The can be flight permit “approved” but not STC’d in Canada, but they would be my first go to if they would fulfill the operational needs.
Thanks Pilot_DAR.
I am sure you know all of this but on my PA28 when it flew over from the States in the 1970’s they cut the fuel line which runs along the back seat inside the cabin and introduced a Tee at this point. I have the original information in the log books – it was completely full of fuel!!
The fuel in the right Aircraft wing tank is used first, then the Aircraft fuel selector takes fuel from the left tank. The ferry tank then had a little transfer pump which back fed the cut fuel line, as it is blocked by the main Aircraft Fuel selector it can only flow backwards so fills up the right tank again.
Then the right tank is selected again (the Tee is closed) so fuel comes back down from the right tank again exactly as Piper designed it all. All properly vented and no fuel ever comes from the ferry tank.
I would like to use a Turtle Pac. We chatted a few months ago – I’ll email you again 
It really looks like I need an STC to avoid pesky overflight permissions.
This does not help much but I think in the end most of those ferry tanks are installed after hours without any paperwork and then disappear after the flight. I once owned a plane with such an installation, the engine would be fed directly by the tank and the T was simply blocked for over a decade since it was last used. I found nothing about this in the paperwork except the two 8 hour flights in the logs which would have been impossible without such a tank.
Hi Archer,
I see you PM’d me, but it came through as hieroglyphics.
In the mean time, Yes, you can safely pump fuel into a tank from which you’re not drawing, that’s safe. It allows any bubbles or other contamination to go up or down in the tank, without feeding into the engine.
The plane would most likely have been ferried on a flight permit. I did a few of those back in the day. The threshold for a flight permit is “safe for flight”, the requirement for an STC is that it meets all of the design requirements. A Turtle Pac in the back of the cabin has a few questionable design compliance issues, flammability compliance being high on the list, and crash deceleration loads being next. An all metal tank is an easier pass, and I have STC approved such a tank in a Caravan. I still like Turtle Pacs, but they cannot easily show compliance to some “in cabin” design requirements.
P.S., your email just arrived…
Pilot_DAR wrote:
An all metal tank
I have been wondering about such installations is pressurized aircraft. It would probably have to be vented to the cabin which somehow seems to be a bad idea. Or it is vented to the outside but then massive loads from the cabin pressure will be on the tank. Anybody knows how this is done? I have seen pictures of massive metal tanks in King Airs so there must be a way to do this.
My current plan for my Robin is to put a turtlepac into a metal box that has an overboard drain and secure the whole plot to the seat belt mounts.
This would give a sealed unit secured on mounts designed to restrain far more weight.
Fuel would gravity feed in to the main tank .
In the opinion of the forum what is the minimum range required by an aircraft to transit the North Atlantic east to west by the Northern Route ?
