I had a funny experience today. We had an IFR flight from LEVX (Vigo) to LFBR (Toulouse) that started to get multiples slot updates around 2 hours before our initial departure time. The CTOT were all over the place between 13Z and 15Z (it didn’t helped that I had to delay the flight being stuck at the “Coordinacion” but that’s another topic).
We wait for the last CTOT and we finally get to to taxi to the departure end of the runway. We line up and the tower calls saying “your CTOT got moved by 9 minutes, standby”.
In Vigo the departure end is not visible from the tower (great design..), so you feel a bit lonely there and your plane doesn’t come with a rear-view mirror. You hear on the frequency that there is a Ryanair somewhere inbound. What do you do :) ?
If the runway’s big enough, I might pivot 45 degrees left to get a view of incoming traffic.
If there is a tower, I wait. And listen.
If they can’t see you, you can "lineup and wait
" by moving sligthly after the yellow strip between the taxiway and runway ;)
Anyway, you don’t have to be on the white line to comply with that instruction, however you can’t line up on opposite runway just to watch the inbound traffic, I guess practical purpose of the clereance is to make sure you can depart imediately which all piston aircrafts can do in one go?
Surely if any doubt you call them on the radio and confirm your location and that you are ‘lined up and waiting’ – does that seem reasonable or particularly difficult ?
Did the tower controller use the phrase ‘line up and wait’ ? Not clear from your post. I had a similar experience here recently, but in this case the TWR controller sent me back along the rwy to the next intersection to re-join the taxiway. Couldn’t just turn around as there were other a/c line up behind.
I just don’t understand the dilemma.
If at a controlled airfield, I do what the controller tells me. That’s his job and mine.
Another example of clear and better practice Stateside. In the USA if ATC issue a LUAW clearance you should set the timer and within 45 seconds ATC needs to provide an update clearance – if you do not hear from them expect to check in.
The reason for this practice is the USA’s higher sensitivity to runway incursion threats, one of which can be due to a LUAW clearance, that has not been updated promptly. The crew might have mis set the radio, the controller might have been distracted by controller workload, etc
Do you want to be sitting on the threshold on a busy IFR runway, possibly in LVP conditions, and not have a clear procedure?
In Europe I use USA practice and will check in if no follow up clearance is received, sometimes I detect some irritation by local ATC when I remind them we are ready for departure, but hopefully Europe might adopt USA SOP in this area in due course.
QuoteIf at a controlled airfield, I do what the controller tells me. That’s his job and mine.
That may have got me killed twice over.
Timothy wrote:
If at a controlled airfield, I do what the controller tells me. That’s his job and mine.
Controllers are not perfect. I’ve personally witnessed controllers give landing clearances to an occupied runway. It behooves pilots to maintain situational awareness and request confirmation from controllers if they feel that something could be wrong. Waiting on the runway where the tower can’t see me visually and knowing there is an inbound aircraft very much seems like a case where it is prudent to ask.
(Note to US readers. I know that in the US controllers can give landing clearances to an occupied runway if they expect the runway to be clear when the aircraft arrives. That’s not allowed in Europe.)
