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Can an instructor be FORCED to sign the PPL SEP class rating revalidation

if the instructor didn’t like your flying, he’ll probably walk away regardless

He can also cut the flight short, the refresher is not a test but if pilot is really dead from the beginning why fly 1h? if the pilot flew well and only mess up at the end, well…

Last Edited by Ibra at 23 May 18:45
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

only in the event of fulfilment of all the other revalidation criteria required by FCL.740.A(b)(1)

Note this bit also. I have no idea what these criteria are, but I’d be amazed if an instructor couldn’t say, “sorry mate, but you messed up on FCL.740A(b)(1)(93.276)(xii)(paragraph 13(b).2). No signature for you today”.

LFMD, France

Sure, but in practice it doesn’t seem to happen.

Perhaps because, due to the nature of GA, if an instructor refuses, he will be slagged off by the pilot on FB, twatter, instagram, tictoc, trustpilot, countless private WA groups…

If a pilot demonstrates that he is totally unable to get wx or notams, he will still get signed off.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

if an instructor refuses, he will be slagged off by the pilot on FB, twatter, instagram, tictoc, trustpilot, countless private WA groups…

In this instance, given that there are no pass/fail criteria that is actually social pressure working as it should.

I typically get my biennial signoffs from one of two or three instructor friends. The protocol is to buy lunch, nothing else required except an hour of flying and an hour of chat. Once every few times I’ve gone out of my way to find an instructor I don’t know, but it honestly hasn’t proved to be particularly beneficial. My best periodic review is with a super-experienced lifelong pilot friend who has flown everything and is now 78. He was an instructor in both civilian and military roles, has always flown his own light aircraft and aerobatics in parallel, still does, and he teaches me something every time we fly together. Last week we decided I ‘needed’ some basic attitude instrument flying practice after 20 years, no logbook entry but who cares, it was something to do. Oddly, he seemed to enjoy watching me doing me do just well enough, saying it reminded him of teaching instrument flying in T-28s circa 1971. Those would apparently also roll off in a few seconds given no corrections

Last Edited by Silvaire at 23 May 20:16

Airborne_Again wrote:

Actually there is. An instructor may or may not be authorised by his/her competent authority to him/herself enter the endorsement in the pilot’s license, but if (s)he is, then (s)he has an obligation to do so.

Do you really think that would work? Do you think anybody would sue a flight instructor to get their endorsement? Do you think a judge would force the flight instructor to issue the revalidation if he / she argues that the flying skills of the applicant were insufficient / fundamentally unsafe, and that thus the training flight could not be completed? Don’t you think any judge would refer you to an examiner to get it sorted out?

Also, being afraid of a social media campaign is just silly. So your FI refuses your revalidation because your flying skills are abysmal and he or she cannot take responsibility for that. You are now going public, telling everybody about your shortcomings inside a very small community?

What do you think will happen if you piss off a flight instructor in a club environment and slander him on social media? Do you think the other instructors would still fly with you? Come on.

Germany

Funny, how discussions about accidents here almost invariably descend into hairsplitting about some obscure legalities and/or calls for more (more!) regulation. Sad state of affairs, I say.

You wrote:

Thomas_R wrote:

There is no legal way a pilot could force the instructor to do so.

And I pointed out that there is a legal obligation for the instructor. That’s all.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

@Airborne_Again but there is also a legal requirement for the instructor to inform the president of the club (in the club environment) that s/he feels that in his/her opinion the candidate needs further training.
There should always be a debriefing between instructor and the pilot following any control flight during which the instructor can point out any areas of concern. In France nowadays the instructor also needs to fill out a form on which he can express any concerns.(just realised I’m not sure what happens to that form).

France

there is also a legal requirement for the instructor to inform the president of the club (in the club environment) that s/he feels that in his/her opinion the candidate needs further training.

FFA has structured requirement for 1h refresher (it’s sort of exam) otherwise it invalidate their insurance & membership, as they say their aircraft, their rules…

  • If aeroclub manual state you need 1h IPC every year to fly, you do it
  • If school manual says you need flight every 28 days, you dot it

That operational requirement has nothing to do with DGAC/FCL or EU laws? your SEP is valid

On A_A point, you are legally required to fill logbook with PUT and sign SEP, if you are not happy with the latter, you can always refer to an authority or an examiner who may sign or require more training

As I stated above, FE/NAA can sign SEP without flying but I doubt they will do if FI raises a concern about the flight, I think only FE can pass/fail candidates (an ACB president is usually not an examiner)

Last Edited by Ibra at 24 May 07:28
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Sure, but in practice it doesn’t seem to happen.

@Peter, it actually DOES happen, I could name you a few schools at EGTR that are doing precisely that to many people and no one moans publicly about those, at least not for that reason :).

EGTR
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