Hi all, Im intending to do a CBIR this year. I fly an N reg SR20 with an EASA ppl. No 61.75 yet (uk based). I have IMC rating, about 50 hours total instrument flying time.
My question simply is, i understand the credit for instrument flying time from my IMCR and subsequent instrument flying time. However, can i do the training flights in the N reg cirrus with a UK IRI? If i want to do the actual flight test in the Cirrus, is it correct that i would need to get the aircraft added to the ATO certificate? Would clearly much prefer to all the flying in the aircraft I will be flying after attaining IR rather than doing 10 hours of flight training at an ATO in a PA28 or similar and also doing the flight test in the same?
thanks
Nothing prevents doing CBIR training in owner N-reg SR20 as long as you find an IRI who is happy and ATO that can add it or evaluate aircraft within their fleet
For IR test in UK most IRE will steer away from privately owned non-ATO & G-reg aircraft, I think it’s some imagined huge burden of compliance: insurance? owner? equipment? maintenance? DfT/ATO/CAA permission?
You can still do ATO IRI & non-ATO IRI hours in SR20 and swap to DA40 for IR test?
In general, it’s easier & cheaper to just use ATO aircraft but it’s way convenient & fun to do in your own aircraft: 1h flight on your own to the school is priceless vs driving 3h to fly school aircraft or staying a night in a hotel, also landing in marginal weather on IMCR minima to find out that your CBIR lesson is cancelled will get you a lifetime reputation 
However, can i do the training flights in the N reg cirrus with a UK IRI?
Yes, because
is it correct that i would need to get the aircraft added to the ATO certificate?
For the final bit, ATO mandatory, yes, but the reality is that most ATOs won’t touch it with a bargepole because they are busy enough with starry-eyed youngsters depositing 80-100k there, and paying £400+/hr to rent their DA42s I did my JAA IR in my N-reg TB20 but that FTO is long gone, and the one at the airport would not do a customer aircraft (last time I asked; 10 years ago).
My son will be going up this path soon.
Probably the objective is to do the max possible # of hours with a locally based freelancer, because you may have to live in a hotel for the ATO portion. Don’t forget your IMCR time also counts… so get a freelancer who knows the actual CAA FE requirements and habits. After you chucked in these credits, the required ATO time may not be very much, so don’t give them an opportunity to extend it by claiming you can’t fly
Would clearly much prefer to all the flying in the aircraft I will be flying after attaining IR rather than doing 10 hours of flight training at an ATO in a PA28 or similar and also doing the flight test in the same?
Of course; get currency on what you will be actually flying. For 99% of the others this doesn’t matter because they will never fly GA.
I think it’s some imagined huge burden of compliance: insurance? owner? equipment? maintenance? DfT/ATO/CAA permission?
One ATO guy told me recently the paperwork is just an hour… So it is mostly BS, and laziness. The CAA/DFT permission ended years ago.
Don’t cause yourself hurdles to deal with.
Getting to test standard means being at your best. Which will require harmony with your instructor and the school you will be attached to.
If you are already comfortable and confident in your airframe, your new skills will transfer back into it in a very quick time. Maybe a single flight or two at the most.
In a school aircraft the instructor knows inside out, he can teach you in an environment he doesn’t have to think about.
If you fly to the school, and the Wx is poor will you get there or have to cancel? Obviously if it is very poor you’ll be cancelling the day anyway.
However how is your timing going to work?
You meet at the school for
your first briefing at 08:00.
Brief / plan for 1.5 hrs
First flight out at 09:30
Fly for 2-3 hrs
Have lunch
Brief / plan for 1hr
1-2 hr flight.
Debrief
Without thinking of anything else it’ll be +/-17:00
Brief / plan Imc flight back to base?
Will you have the energy for all that flying / logistics?
I did the drive/hotel thing and it was 100% the correct thing for me. Even if every day was guaranteed VMC I still wouldn’t change a thing.
Each to his own of course but that’s how it worked out for me.
If you are already comfortable and confident in your airframe, your new skills will transfer back into it in a very quick time. Maybe a single flight or two at the most.
Most of the time the difficulty is psychological but some difficulties are real, especially when getting ask to rely less on automation 
Easy transitions: moving from IFR on glass cockpit fixed gear SR20 to DA40 and back SR20 is easy (I did training in Mooney and test in school Arrow, I could just fly them at same speeds and both had same old 6 packs avionics layout)
Difficult transitions: doing training in G1000 then test with 6 pack steam AI+DG & IFD will get you burn load of hours, already flying an aircraft with autopilot/flight director and 3D on GPS WAAS is completely different from aircraft without autopilot and 2D LNAV only, probably you need “10h refresher” to get back to the standard?
PS: the mess carryover after you have passed initial test: I did my revalidations in rented DA40, I need to fly 2h before jumping with an examiner but it’s a piece of cake: I have wind in PFD, it has good autopilot and partial pannel is done with a backup artificial horizon not turn coordinator, so not complaining much
Maybe a single flight or two at the most.
I don’t think it is that easy.
Obviously if it is very poor you’ll be cancelling the day anyway.
In general, not IME, because so often I have done a trip to the mainland in good wx (would not have left home otherwise) and later come back to the UK and looking at the METARs on the golze ADL wondering where I will be landing and will I divert to Biggin Hill for the ILS yet again…
Re flying to the ATO, one definitely should fly there the day before and stay in a hotel, even if you are going to be there just 1 day – because you won’t be absorbing much if you had an early morning, and the usual hassle at the airport(s). Much better to stay in some crappy hotel and start fresh. You can then also watch the Easyjet etc cadets staying at the same hotel doing their assignments “collectively”, and wonder how these airlines manage to avoid crashes, with such a “kid” in the RHS
Having trodden this path in 2018 (although in a G-reg SR20):
- the ATO stage is a minimum 10 hours. If the ATO is not local to your home base, factor in positioning flights. If your SR20 is rented, factor in aircraft availability.
- some ATOs and examiners will insist on the aircraft having DME and ADF. Whilst DME is required, ADF is not. If the missed approach requires NDB you can request alternative missed approach instructions.
- speak to CSIPs for advice. They know the ATOs and IRIs that work with Cirrus owners and take a 21st century approach towards the IR training. Two UK-based CSIPs are also UK CAA IR initial examiners. Message me if you require names.
Easyjet etc cadets staying at the same hotel doing their assignments “collectively”, and wonder how these airlines manage to avoid crashes
Luckily, at least until my retirement, not all of ´em kids made it to the RHS, and even if they did, some still ended up being directed to go and try a different occupation
vmc-on-top wrote:
I fly an N reg SR20 with an EASA ppl. No 61.75 yet (uk based).
In an N-reg, flying outside UK sovereign airspace means you will need to fly on an FAA certificate (or a licence issued by the country to which the airspace belongs). If you are flying IFR, the IR will also need to be on the FAA certificate.
Once you have your UK IR on your UK licence, start the process for obtaining a 61.75 certificate. Go to the US to take the Instrument Foreign Pilot written exam, then head to the FSDO with your paperwork. You will be issued with a 61.75 certificate for single engine airplane + instrument.
