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Help understand the best option for flying around Europe - LSA or UL

I don’t think they paid anything like €350 at Malaga but then again they were armed with a note/permission from the Interior Ministry so I would imagine they only paid the minimums set out under AENA. Although they may have had to pay travel costs for C+I.
If it had all come to more than €100 or even less for each aircraft I’m sure I would have heard about it before now. It might even have made some of the French GA journals, especially the FFPLUM journal.🙂 After all, food wasn’t involved.😃

France

In the event they chose LEAX Malaga because one of the couples had flown in Spain some years earlier and knew of a 800m field, Antequera, near Malaga which was normally deserted during the week and a fuel station less than a km down the road, where they could fill up their collapsible fuel cans with SP95.

Thanks for the details, I don’t anyone who flies GA go to Malaga these days, they quoted 350€ to go to Rabat, they sent me few pages PDF of prohibited items to bring in the terminal (SP95?) and felt my pax will get offended, I went to Jerez with 50€ and nice welcome but I was told things changed slightly

Once you are past Spain no one cares or check, if you ever bother asking for sub-ICAO approvals in Morocco, the guy replies yes as long as you pay the fee, you can send anything in the form

I wrote a long email asking if it’s ok to fly TMG using UK BGA papers (no ICAO SPL back then), they asked if I paid and have EASA PPL, C2 medical and Radio? and he said “No Pb”, I got ICAO revalidation, I was not sure if it fits the bill as the glider was D-reg and revalidation talks about SEP, anyway life is short…

Last Edited by Ibra at 07 Oct 08:58
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

They later heard, anecdotally, that this wasn’t necessary as they could have just used their call sign and no one knows or perhaps cares whether they are a 3 axis ULM or a certified aircraft.

QED.

This debate always comes back to one thing: is your insurance valid on such a flight? I’ve never seen any evidence either way, and I suppose the risk of something happening is tiny, and then the risk of the loss adjuster noticing is also small.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

As it turned out, last night I saw one of the guys that went to Dakar and back.
2 ULM and Alpi Pioneer and a MCR01 and 2 couples did the trip. 2 of the people had what one would call school Spanish which rhey brushed up on before going, and one of the pilots had an ELP5 due to a now lapsed SEIR.
Both aircraft applied for permission to cross Spain with the Interior Ministry and at the same time they applied for permission to leave the Schengen area and re enter via a customs airport. They later heard, anecdotally, that this wasn’t necessary as they could have just used their call sign and no one knows or perhaps cares whether they are a 3 axis ULM or a certified aircraft.
They had 2 options Malaga (LEAX) where customs would come to (deplace to: literal translation from the French) or Jerez de la Frontera (LEJR) where they were told they would not need a transponder. (This might have been a mistranslation) Not that it mattered, as both aircraft were equipped with mode S.
In the event they chose LEAX Malaga because one of the couples had flown in Spain some years earlier and knew of a 800m field, Antequera, near Malaga which was normally deserted during the week and a fuel station less than a km down the road, where they could fill up their collapsible fuel cans with SP95.
All they then had to do was file flight plans.
In the end they thought that perhaps the anecdotes were correct in that once in Spain they were treated exactly as they would have been if they had been flying an EASA certified aircraft.

France

Peter wrote:

I’ve had clearances, VFR, through Class A, in Spain and Italy. Had no IR then

Had the same in UK…. wasn’t flying in solid IMC, though….

Last Edited by Steve6443 at 06 Oct 05:10
EDL*, Germany

I’ve had clearances, VFR, through Class A, in Spain and Italy. Had no IR then, and was flying in solid IMC

Seriously 😳

always learning
LO__, Austria

As I often write (and always get jumped on when I write it, while anybody else can say it freely ) nobody cares about this stuff.

And if you are talking about countries where English is not a widely spoken, or is “reluctantly spoken”, second language (we all know who these are; much of Europe actually, but Spain very much so) then you are usually looking at the only English speakers being upstairs in the tower, and they aren’t policing traffic, and that leaves you with just about nobody else giving a damn, or if they do know or notice, they aren’t going to bother to approach a foreign arrival.

Much of Europe is a different world… There is a whole load of stuff you can do in the right places, so long as nothing goes wrong.

And attitudes vary. Reminds me of that story, true story, where two women, from England IIRC, at least one obviously having a PPL, landed somewhere in Spain, and the airport manager wanted to speak to the PILOT. Eventually he climbed inside, looking in the back, under the seats, etc, looking for the PILOT.

I’ve had clearances, VFR, through Class A, in Spain and Italy. Had no IR then, and was flying in solid IMC

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

It could be as simple as AENA personnel not knowing that it’s a ULM. Spanish ULMs have a number in their reg, unlike certifieds. French are all letters for both types. But it may be a thing of knowing but not caring. I’ve seen ULMs at AENA field LESB, however Son Bonet is not a customs field.

Private field, Mallorca, Spain

I seem to remember they landed at Jerez to clear customs and immigration both ways

Would be good to know what was the arrangements as Jerez don’t accept ULM even when you have Spanish overflying permit, once you leave Spain, in Morocco & Senegal no one cares about ULM vs SEP, a friend flew Baby Jodel (ULM not SEP) to Essaouira other than ANEA airports, the rest was pretty smooth

Last Edited by Ibra at 05 Oct 14:00
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

I think that – flying France → French speaking bit of Africa – is a slightly different thing. It is quite popular in France for those that do “touring” but is easier because you need to only cross Spain, where nobody cares about anything

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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