Police check on pilots departing before filed EOBT

denopa wrote:

I thought in Germany the airport staff was empowered to do those checks?

not at all german airfields this is possible they charge you 15 euros for this service in my case they needed 2hrs notice to do get it arranged

achimha wrote:

In the future neither Peter nor the readers here will depart early without taking some precaution. Nothing happened and we learned something.

Amen

Come to think of it, I once witnessed the Swiss customs eagerly waiting for Peter at Lausanne. They were a little upset because he did not arrive at the expected time. In fact he had a fuel flow instrument issue and had delayed the flight to Lausanne to investigate. He arrived a couple of hours later and I expected the customs officers to be all over him, but by that time they had lost interest.

From flying a lot commercially I can vouch that “a man checking my passport” doesn’t mean anything. Board a flight to the US or Israel and your passport will be checked by three or four different “men”. Even Zurich to London you’ll be checked twice by different sets of “men”.

And from work experience with El Al, Arkia and Sunair (never turn corners running in the jetty, even if you wear a uniform…ever) I can also say that trying the " a man already checked my passport" line… that is when you’re going to really see what a power trip looks like.

Peter wrote:

What is the definitive process for notifying departure time, other than the filed eobt?

As several people have pointed out, EOBT, ie. that in the flight plan, is of no value to customs/immigration. They do not have access to your flight plan, and you may not file your flight plan long enough ahead of time to satisfy the notification period anyway. I have been a little sloppy with using that term (EOBT) myself and had my wrist slapped by denopa

I will hereafter assume we are specifically discussing extra-Schengen flights.

The flight plan is for ATC. If you fly to an airfield that does not have a permanent presence of customs/immigration, you need to notify them about the flight. According to the Arrêté of 24/10/2017 the PN needs to be given 24 hrs before arrival or departure, but a different notification period may be decided upon by the Préfet et al (and published by NOTAM/AIP). For non-commercial flights giving prior notice is the responsibility of the pilot in command. For commercial flights the handling agent is responsible.

I did not use to do that in the past, but I increasingly see the interest of calling the airport ahead of time to inform them about my plans. Over the past two years, there were airfields in France that required customs even for intra-Schengen flights, and that information was not published, except sometimes on the airfield’s website which I deliberately choose to ignore. Airport OPS would then silently notify customs and avoided the pilot to get into trouble with the authorities. I know that to be the case in Caen, Avignon, Tours and Limoges.

So to get back to the subject, what I am saying is that although it is the pilot’s responsibility to know when customs is required and notify them, sometimes the airport OPS may do so for you as part of their service. In any event, when customs is required, you need to notify them about any change in plans. That said, they do receive your FPL, and they may notify customs unbeknownst to you if they see any changes in time of departure or arrival in the FPL. If so they may use the EOBT indicated in the flight plan. But keep I mind the responsibility for notifying customs is formally the pilot’s (for non-commercial flights). This is restated by the Arrêté of 24/10/2017.

Some ports of entry may not have any OPS to notify of your flight. That was the case of Pontoise back when it was a port of entry. In that case you need to notify customs yourself by whatever means is indicated in AIP/NOTAM. And you need to notify them of any changes. Funnily the Arrêté of 24/10/2017 explicitly states that notice should be given by e-mail (article 4). No more fax or phone.

The Arrêté of 24/10/2017 is very clear. Too bad it is in French only, but I expect it is only a matter of time before it finds its way into AIP France.

achimha wrote:

I was once forced by ATC in Greece to taxi back to the apron…

This summer I was forced by Greek customs officer to return to apron for aircraft check after I left the airport after arrival. We passed immigration and we were standing in front of rental car office picking up car keys when he approached with police officer and asked for luggage check. Of course he didn’t apologize because he wasn’t at his workplace and he didn’t check us when he was supposed to. As if it wasn’t enough he forced me back to apron to uncover aircraft, pull out everything from it (tools, oil, etc.) and after 30 min of checking he let me go. And he didn’t speak English – police officer and handler were translators. At the end handler had quite loud quarrel with him – I didn’t understand anything except few curses.

even if the said documents have been examined

Unfortunately examined by not authorized person means nothing.

Peter wrote:

That is just pure stupidity on their part because the FP was delayed and they could have seen the new ETA. So I didn’t arrive “a couple of hours later”.

Otherwise every time a FP is delayed the police would go crazy.

I overheard the conversation at the airport OPS. You arrived one hour or two after the time that had been notified to customs through the form you filled out and sent to airport OPS. Customs obviously do not have access to the FPL and were expecting you at the time notified. IIRC the agent explained to customs that you had had a technical problem.

I think they got it since they lost interest.