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Depository for off topic / political posts (NO brexit related posts please)

@kwlf I missed your reply somehow. Was it in here?

“A great preponderence of police are injured or killed” – can we have at least one example of a law enforcement officer being killed in the line of duty during the protests?

Shouldn’t be hard if such “a great preponderence” have died.

T28
Switzerland

David Dorn I believe was

kwlf wrote:

If someone’s speaking peacefully to a TV camera

But they aren’t. They are running into riots, throwing explosives, and projectiles, then claiming to be press when asked / forced to move back. Did you look at the stuff Andy Ngo has documented? He’s also been the victim of antifa and was pretty brutally beaten enough to have a brain hemorrhage I believe and is a journalist. So much for peaceful…

But they aren’t. They are running into riots, throwing explosives, and projectiles, then claiming to be press when asked / forced to move back.

Perhaps some people are, but here’s an Australian journalist being roughed up. He doesn’t seem aggressive, and is carrying an expensive looking camera. It’s not something you would come by easily if it were just a prop to help you get away with hooliganism.



Last Edited by kwlf at 01 Aug 17:50

Obviously there is no audio in that video which seems very odd indeed. Had they been announcing on loudspeakers for everyone to get back and clear an area? I can understand police being on edge given how they appear to have been abandoned by many councils and governors by many and the ACAB (all cops are b********) crew. I’d certainly be worried about someone behind a wall attacking or stabbing someone.

There was the black conservative journalist who got stabbed in portland by a “protester”

perhaps some people are journalists and perhaps some people aren’t. In these sort of situations (especially wearing helmets and masks, it’s hardly easy to stop each person and have a detailed look and make a decision on the quality and merits of a persons video capturing equipment.

Still it could all get worse Seattle council move to abolish police department

OK can we terminate this discussion now. It has zero relevance to anything here.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

As a proof of the superiority of the “everyone for himself” system, the supreme leader of that enlightened nation assured us bleach cures not only autism but also Covid.

T28
Switzerland

Silvaire wrote:

And that is the point. Disciplined, debated and (as a result) fairly consistent understanding of the governmental role, what it should and can do and what it shouldn’t and can’t do, has traditionally been a key item in making the US work for a huge, diverse population. The opposite is people looking to government to direct their lives and recycle their money to provide for them, and that doesn’t produce results in a diverse society, which is a pretty good description of the world looking forward, not backwards.

I’m not sure exactly what actually mean. The government’s role? Traditionally (in Scandinavia since 1000+ years) and still today, the “role” of the government, if anything at all, is to execute the will of the people, whatever that may be. At the most rudimentary form it simply means a “legal unwritten contract” for everyone to act according to the “will of the people” (and face the consequences if you don’t). 1000+ years ago there were no governments here, only the “will of the people” constituted through small and large periodic gatherings. Any sort of government, in the correct sense of the word, didn’t emerge until Christianity arrived. The problem with government is it corrupts, traditionally side by side with religion, the Church. This is what all the late viking battles was all about, killing the corrupted Christian King. It had nothing to do with religion as such, other than symbolic. Needless to say, that “war” was lost. In more recent history, the church has been replaced with some -ism various places on the globe. It really isn’t more complicated than that.

The main question is what the will of the people is. In all the Nordic countries I think it is pretty much the same today. We all want a welfare society where everyone is given equal opportunity, independent of family wealth/influence and ethnic/religious ties. To do that, the basic “infrastructure” in life, such as education, health, elderly care etc has to be free of cost for the individual. In short, the government has to replace the practical “care taking” that traditionally was done by the family. You are free to put an -ism here if you want, like communism or socialism, but it’s pretty much irrelevant. Even the most right wing politicians here are not in opposition to the welfare state. What is relevant is that the will of the people is executed. This works for diverse societies as well. The way it works is by rendering family/religious/ethnic ties irrelevant for the opportunities and possibilities of the individual. This can be a brutal experience for certain groups of immigrants, but a blessing for others.

All experience show that the second generation of immigrants already is 100% adapted/assimilated though, if they aren’t already. Culture, family, ethnicity, religion is not the same as the “will of the people”, and there is no inherent contradiction. If there are contradictions, then these come from some outdated culture, religion etc that some immigrants bring with them. There is no free lunch though. If you want to stay here, there are certain things you simply have to adopt, or might as well go back to where you came from. “Gethoism” etc is not tolerated, but they pop up from time to time within certain sub cultures of immigrants. It is indeed expected that you contribute to the society as a whole, in whatever form you can (typically taxes, but that’s not the only way). I think from the outside that the whole of Scandinavia looks like a place with no immigrants and no immigrant problems. The truth is that the are more immigrants here than anywhere else. At least one out of five persons, more like one of four is an immigrant or have immigrant parents.

I think with COVID the situation is more that people are dying, and “someone” has to do “something”. Individually there isn’t much one can than do to stop a pandemic, so collective measures must be taken. Most of it is pure symbolism IMO, like masks. Norway has one of the lowest infection rates, and no masks are worn. Right now it is spreading among the young people, but no one is getting sick or dying anymore, not even the elderly. I can only assume that “someone” has indeed done “something” that helps. I don’t know exactly what though but it is not masks for sure On the other hand, it was very soon discovered that keeping kids home from school had no effect, so maybe this is exactly what we see now.

Anyway, my point is that we get the government we “deserve” and have elected. Exactly what it does in this pandemic seems a bit erratic and random and different from country to country, and inseminated with symbolism just to give the impression that it does “something” since each individual cannot do much. If the population “expect” the government to do a lot of stuff, it will. If the population “expect” the government to “relax”, it will. The truth is they are mostly fumbling in the dark keeping some sort of balance between hard measures and suggestive measures to please the population as best they can. The only thing that for sure helps is social distance, hygiene and stay at home when feeling sick anyway.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

@LeSving I agree with almost everything you say except that you missed out the fact that it was mainly trade which forced the Vikings to give up their gods and convert to Christianity. No conversion no trade and the Vikings were very practical people:)

France
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