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Buying a family plane (and performance calculations)

So the gradual step is :
- Cherokee
- Archer II (first real four seater)
- Comanche (wider cabin, faster)
- Saratoga (6-seater)

LFOU, France

Antonio wrote:

Well , in the case of my (admittedly boating-) friends, what we see is they end up coming back…only with friends

Ya, that’s unfair. All kids love to go sailing with me, and I had some 45 feet yacht full of kids. However not so with flying or shorter trips.

I don’t really lament, because I do love sailing (or boating) too :-))

My plan for going by plane to the marina is taking along not more than 4 (plus myself) in the plane plus baggage. Any “real” six seater could be 5 passengers plus baggage, but would have to be calculated. Any additional crew member will have to take the (air)bus. But so far due to the pandemia I did not have any chance to do so.

Last Edited by UdoR at 27 Apr 12:54
Germany

Since nobody mentioned it, I’m going to do it: what about a C185? You can find them with 6 seats, where the last 2 are really for children and it does have a significant useful load, ours can take 4 adults full fuel and significant amount of luggage. It’s not the fastest aircraft, but it’s quite decent.

ENVA, Norway

Jujupilote wrote:

So the gradual step is :
- Cherokee
- Archer II (first real four seater)
- Comanche (wider cabin, faster)
- Saratoga (6-seater)

If you are still looking at four-seater, what about Piper Arrow? Allegedly, it is an Archer just with a wobbly prop & gear! :)

EGTR

Jujupilote wrote:

Archer II (first real four seater)

If mission is regular 300nm with light IFR on family trips to sunny places at 8kft, maybe 1500nm tour per year, Archer2 is pretty good performer, I think one have to fly it for 300h across whole Europe, especially the southern part, before they are entitled to complaining, the only reason why anyone would stop flying it before that are:
- Futile & fetish aspects: peanut +20kts speed, turbo, variable propeller, retractable gear, v-tail, backward tail, canards, 2/3-doors…
- Change of mission profile: going for 600nm & 16kft, no grass runways, winter IFR
- Extra reassurance: de-ice, parachute, twins…

It’s the best of Mr Piper and the only PA28 still in production !

Last Edited by Ibra at 27 Apr 15:21
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

UdoR wrote:

My plan for going by plane to the marina

Been there and done that but make sure you can park the plane at the airport next to the marina. If you charter, the boat charters are only available at places where customers can get there by airline and such airports often have GA parking issues. But it can work out and we did the last 2 boat trips by GA plane :-)

Also note that most boat places tend to be south of the Alps which is a challenge. On our last boat trip the Bonanza crew did end up with 1 week in rainy Berlin while the PA46 crew made it to Greece and we had one week of great sailing.

www.ing-golze.de
EDAZ

Let me make one little contribution to this: why have I got so much enjoyment out of my TB20? It is a high performance plane. Obviously some go faster but only a little. Some go higher but at a big price (top overhauls < 1khrs, etc). The TB20 has taken me straight over the top of the Alps, to Croatia in one hop, and this is very workable under VFR (if you are clever about it).

All the time you are looking in the PA28 bracket, you are limiting yourself to no mountains and a useful range (taking into account alternates etc) of about 300nm. IOW, cutting off most of the best / most scenic destinations in Europe. Well, an Archer can do the Alps, if you are careful where you go, just about.

One needs to think about what will deliver real value, relative to driving which – in Germany, where the OP lives – is not only fairly workable but also a huge national/cultural institution. Small kids don’t usually care much about the travel bit, and neither do most wives spouses, but everybody loves the mountains

I am not sure if @alan_south is still around but he used to ferry a family of, IIRC, 5, in a Twin Com, apparently successfully.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

@Peter have flown PA28 over the Rockies a few times, obviously not IFR as NA piston would not be achieving the required climb rates at the MEAs required. I would suggest the same may apply to the Alps unless you are routing to the North for a while before heading south, the practical MEA is still F150, and ATC would expect you to be achieving 500 fpm.

Range at 65% is pretty good thanks to 9 usgph and 48 usable. Using block planning of 110KTAS (conservative in an Archer) and 90 minutes reserve, suggest closer to 400nm.

This flock of Cherokees seem to have visited Croatia from the UK, but obviously not non stop!



Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

All the time you are looking in the PA28 bracket, you are limiting yourself to no mountains and a useful range (taking into account alternates etc) of about 300nm. IOW, cutting off most of the best / most scenic destinations in Europe. Well, an Archer can do the Alps, if you are careful where you go

Of course if you are making few 1500nm out/return per year to Croatia IFR 3-4pob non stop, the Archer2 is not the right mount !
NorthWeald-Sandown VFR 1pob, FIKI SR22 is not the right mount, but someone does it every month

There is a middle somewhere?

Last Edited by Ibra at 27 Apr 15:56
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Yes there must be a compromise which works for a particular person.

NorthWeald-Sandown is going to kill one’s flying, however, in not too many years.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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