AF wrote:
x1 survival suit (tough to put on, but doable in a minute or two)
Have you actually tried this in the aeroplane?
I wear a survival suit regularly and I doubt very much I could put it on at all in the confines of an SEP, let alone in a minute…
I seriously suggest that if you own a survival suit, then you put it on before you get in the aeroplane – its designed to be worn that way.
Additionally, remember that it is best to wear several layers under the suit too – this is what keeps you warm, not the suit.
Use that minute you talk of to put on the hood, make sure you have the lifejacket on and have the PLB to hand, Liferaft secure but within reach etc.
Regards, SD..
skydriller wrote:
Have you actually tried this in the aeroplane?
We did try it with a stopwatch and was were able to put on the two suits in maybe 2-3 minutes but to be fair this was a PA46 and the person putting on the suit went back then came back up front and the other one went back. Putting it on at the pilot/copilot position would have been very difficult or maybe impossible.
You can do it in a PA46 if there are two of you. In smaller aircraft you would have to wear it. When I required them in the meridian it was left in the passenger seats.
I very much doubt you want to be putting on a survival suit on the way down in any aircraft, while carrying out the vital checks and setting up for landing, but I guess it is just about possible. I think if you consider a survival suit necessary, then fly with it on. Dont overlook that survival suits are one thing, but there are very good Gortex dry suits avaialble (obviously at a price, but relatively speaking, not a lot more). The advantage is they are much more comfortable and they also breathe. For practical purposes they will give you every bit as much chance in the water.
Grab bags are available from any good chandlers and are purpose made, and come in a range of sizes.
As you probably know the absolutely key to survival is being found (quickly). There is no substitute for a personal EPIRB and AIS combined as giving you the very best chance. There still arent too many units that do that but;
https://www.marinesuperstore.com/safety-beacons/epirb/mcmurdo-g8-epirb
is great.
From about December through to April (the sea gets colder later than you might expect, and takes longer to warm up), without a dry suit you are going to do very well to survive more than thirty minutes in the water, you will do way better with a raft or dry suit. On passages say to the CI’s I guess you will be pretty lucky to get picked up mid route that quickly, even if you put down near a ship. I think without either a dry suit or liferaft you will be very lucky to survive.
They always say put down near a ship. I am not convinced. You only need to see how long they take to stop, and the performance to release a raft or come anywhere near the crash site. You would be far better near a yacht, trawler or similiar much smaller water craft if there are any around. There is probably more chance they will see you as well! Ships are not renowned for their watch keeping and tucked up on the bridge even less likely to see or hear a ditching close by.
I think they reckon if you pan a typical single in, you may get around 20 minutes before it sinks. I think a raft (if it is one or the other) is probably the best compromise between raft and suit in terms of convenience and practicality. I doubt anything other than the EPIRB/AIS around your neck will make much difference, as long as you also manage a Mayday with position. If you need all the other stuff a sailor might put in a grab bag you will probably be dead before any of it is of any use.
For the CI’s crossing they would probably scrabble the rotary from Lee so you can expect a pickup within an hour with luck, less for the typical L2K crossing, more for the North sea and Ireland, but I guess not a lot, as long as they can locate you quickly. However if it is down to a liferaft shout it is going to be much longer.
Good info all the way around.
Thanks @Fuji_Abound
What raft do you fly with?
I have the RFD raft but I am lucky enough to rarely fly over water in a single, it is mostly twin flying. Irrantional, I know, but I quite like the comfort of the extra engine these days especially doing some longer water crossings, and I find I dont think about taking the shortest route or getting especially high.
Interesting video on ditching
If there’s a better thread feel free to move it.
Why not carry a raft when flying from islands near the mainland?
It seems somewhat of a a consensus that you should carry a raft also when crossing not so large bodies of water like the English channel whereas on the other hand it seems excessive to do so when flying to or from islands like the German north sea islands. See for example here: https://www.euroga.org/forums/flying/1999-trip-to-borkum-airspace-and-water-crossing-questions
But why is that? For example one should be able to fly from Germany to Sweden via Rügen and be easily (I don’t know the numbers but from a quick glance at the map it looks not too far away) within gliding range of the coast at FL120 or so. And even if you have a short amount of time where you aren’t, what are the odds of your engine quitting after having run fine for the last hour? If you just fly along without fiddling with the engine controls it should run fine as long it has fuel. Of course airspace must allow a decent cruise altitude.
But if you fly let’s say from Norderney or some airfield at the coast where you will be over the sea directly after takeoff, you will end up wet for sure when the engine quits. Engine failure after takeoff is much more likely than in cruise, there is even an abbreviation for that. So why no raft in this case?
If you go through the AOPA accident database, you will find a small but significant number of accidents where an engine quit in the middle of flight without “fiddling controls”. I agree with you and wouldn’t load my plane with a dinghy for a 5 miles hop to Baltrum, but I would certainly bring a diver’s cap (neoprene) for every passenger on board (you loose up to 50% of your body heat through neck and head). that doesn’t take space, effort, or much preparation.
