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NAA/CAA action against a pilot upon declaring a mayday - fiction?

That is the problem with any “permission required” from authorities, this can be anything from a simple formality which is granted all the time to an effective prohibition, or anything in between.

Fwiw, in France after I made a precautionary landing in a field due to weather, the local Gendarmerie liaised with the authority and we were good to fly out the aircraft next day, it was quick and no real paperwork was involved, but before granting permission they wanted to know who was flying it out, and asked for a takeoff performance calculation. So jt looks like at the least they did a “sense check”.

That was ages ago, not sure it would be that informal nowadays…

Last Edited by Cobalt at 02 Dec 12:48
Biggin Hill

That is the problem with any “permission required” from authorities, this can be anything from a simple formality which is granted all the time to an effective prohibition, or anything in between.

Yes depending on who you ask and if there is a precedent things can go from “OK” to have to “NO”

You still need to make the takeoff without breaking anything in the physical world the pile of paperwork for one-off approval, physical work carried on the runway, hiring of CPL/FI…is not enough, you will find that you need more wind

BEA report

Last Edited by Ibra at 02 Dec 13:03
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Ibra wrote:

you will find that you need more wind

You mean less tailwind :) In that report, they took off with 6 kts tailwind…

ELLX

No mention of A&P Authorisation after an emergency landing not due to weather!

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom

In the US? Probably depends on the emergency.

The general rule in aviation is that once the pilot becomes aware of an airworthiness issue, he is required to get it fixed. Until then, there is no problem

One obvious example is an off airport landing due to running low or running out of fuel. Fill up, and take off… The European rules for this scenario seem to be based on weird old laws, and trespass rules.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I was very surprised that a French PPL requires training in precautionary (not emergency) off-airport landings. The instructor seemed surprised when I said “why would you ever do that?” But I guess it means that if you DO make one, then nobody is going to be super-surprised.

I think this is yet another hangover from the 1930s – it seems like the French PPL syllabus was probably made up by Bleriot and hasn’t changed since.

LFMD, France

“why would you ever do that?”

It’s usually weather

  • Under VFR, it’s usually when terrain raised and clouds and visibility gets lower and you have gone too far that it is closed behind
  • Under IFR, icing or convective: you cloud-break on safe spot and put it in a field with power

The most interesting case I heard was density altitude while two aicraft were going in valley of Barcelonette, one aircraft went for precautionary landing in a flatish corner while the other continued and hit the canyon trying to outclimb it

You do “precautionary landing” because you know you are going to die in next 5 or 10min and prefer putting the feet on ground (most pilots don’t have that mental capability, they only know 1 second before impact, this also includes pilots flying with BRS/CAPS fitted)

Last Edited by Ibra at 03 Dec 11:46
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

@Ibra – what you say makes sense. But you had to get into that situation first. “Never say never” I know, and for sure if you find yourself in one of those situations then a precautionary landing sure beats dying. But I would treat that the same as an emergency landing – “the airplane belongs to the insurance company”. Even if you don’t break anything seriously, getting out again is likely to be a big problem.

This isn’t taught in the US. Emergency landings, sure – if the engine stops you have no choice. I don’t know whether that’s a good thing or not. If you have in the back of your mind “I can always land in a field somewhere” does that make you more inclined to head on into dubious weather for example?

LFMD, France

Ibra wrote:

You do “precautionary landing” because you know you are going to die in next 5 or 10min and prefer putting the feet on ground

This sounds already like an emergency landing to me. To me a precautionary landing is typically done in a situation where one still has some options but a landing is more or less guaranteed to have a positive outcome while the other options might probably work but only with a little bit of luck involved. That means that there should be enough time to scout out the area and pick a spot which is not only suitable for a landing without damage but also for a subsequent takeoff.

For example if I’m stuck VFR under low hanging stratus because of some bad decisions and I still have 120 litres of fuel but no airfield in sight. I know from my weather briefing that the sky is clear 150 nm north of my position. The plane is IFR equipped and I am not but know how to use the autopilot. Since it is Sunday and the weather is a little bit unpleasant the roads are empty. Do I do what I did hundreds of times before and fly a traffic pattern and land on a km long stretch of asphalt? Or do I try what I have never done before even if it sounds dead easy? I think that would be a situation for a precautionary landing.

EDQH, Germany

If you have in the back of your mind “I can always land in a field somewhere” does that make you more inclined to head on into dubious weather for example?

It’s difficult to answer, usually one declare emergency when they hit their imagined personal minima and one die when they hit their biological minima between these you have legal minima, equipment minima, pilot personal minima the real ones and the imagined ones and physical & biological minima (airframe , ground impact…)

Then it’s all about expectations & alternatives against random outcomes: I don’t see the issue with flying in bad weather hoping it gets better assuming you have precautionary landing in mind if it gets worse…

Last Edited by Ibra at 03 Dec 13:12
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom
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