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The decline of real expertise in Europe

This thread made me think about this yet again.

People in Romania are much more resourceful. Historically they had to be, and there is a lot more electronics expertise around over there. For example most people doing software on freelancer.com are from down there, and Ukraine. In “old Europe” expertise has largely died out, probably due to the dominance of huge companies selling turnkey solutions, used to replace clever individuals as they retire.

So few people understand engineering (mechanical and electronic) and physics at a “real” level nowadays.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

In “old Europe” expertise has largely died out, probably due to the dominance of huge companies selling turnkey solutions, used to replace clever individuals as they retire.

Peter, if it looks anything like IT, then this could be also due to the fact it is not that popular to be a geek anymore.
Most jobs that require actualy technical expertise are moved offshore, so not many people want take those over here – what’s the point if your is it go somewhere within next few years?

EGTR

Expertise isn’t seen anymore as the mark of the accomplished professional. Now the ambitious student dream is :
to manage
to work in marketing
to change jobs regularly (every two years)
to jump from one company to another (every two to four years)

Executives think the same way and want maximum flexibility (anyone can replace anyone). So every project train x people on subject y, then when they are a little bit accustomed to it, they are scattered elsewhere and start back from zero (new team, new subject). Complete waste of time and knowledge.
Who of my generation will become experts ? Not a lot. Experts are not flexible by definition.

I don’t know what will make Europe’s GDP in 2050. What will we offer on the market if we loose our knowledge ?

LFOU, France

arj1 wrote:

Peter, if it looks anything like IT, then this could be also due to the fact it is not that popular to be a geek anymore.
Most jobs that require actualy technical expertise are moved offshore, so not many people want take those over here – what’s the point if your is it go somewhere within next few years?

I can’t say we see that at my university… We have no problem at all getting students to the “IT technical expertise” study programmes.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Airborne_Again wrote:

I can’t say we see that at my university… We have no problem at all getting students to the “IT technical expertise” study programmes.

We have lots of vacuum and surface science stuff from the 70s that is incredibly reliable, and when it goes wrong, a fantastic technician who can fix almost anything from that era. He has 2 years left until retirement and will be pretty much un-replaceable. Meanwhile our modern equipment (from your town actually!) is always breaking, not user serviceable, and the company just shrugs their shoulders and asks for money to replace it!

EIMH, Ireland

arj1 wrote:

this could be also due to the fact it is not that popular to be a geek anymore.

Was it ever? In class ridden UK anyway. The advantage to taking up flying (for some, sadly not me. Well, not much) was that it used to be a geeky following that attracts girls.

EGBW / KPRC, United Kingdom

Arguably, nerdishness is more valued these days than it was when I was at school. Any interest in electronics or IT, used not to be something you discussed in public. These days YouTube is full of people who are unashamedly nerdy about Spacex or coffee or linguistics or 10001 other things.

STEM skills are respected more (everyone has a laptop and a phone, even if not interested in IT) and recognised as a pathway to a well paying job. People are aware of Asperger’s syndrome and perhaps more willing to make allowances for those who need them. On the other hand, perhaps you don’t need to be quite so hard-core these days to study IT or electronics, so the true experts will be spread more thinly.

A lot of students seem to be learning Javascript and Web design with a view to getting rich, rather than having any true enthusiasm for the subject. This seems to me to be a shame. However it does seem to imply that the technical professions have shaken off some of the prejudice against them.

Last Edited by kwlf at 26 Jul 15:25

Arguably, nerdishness is more valued these days than it was when I was at school. Any interest in electronics or IT, used not to be something you discussed in public. These days YouTube is full of people who are unashamedly nerdy about Spacex or coffee or linguistics or 10001 other things.

I agree.

When I was at univ, 1975-1978, it was extremely un-cool to reveal to a girl that you were an “engineer”. I think the appreciation of engineering had died by then, relative to the 1950s and all the decades before that. My male friends got a lot more success by saying they were unemployed

But today I hear that this has very much changed, and engineers are appreciated again. Well, it took only 40 years…

A lot of students seem to be learning Javascript and Web design with a view to getting rich, rather than having any true enthusiasm for the subject.

Well, that has been the case for 20 years. If you did a Masters in computer science, JS was about the most useful (the only useful?) thing you learnt. And now that whole scene (server-side and client-side programming) has exploded with a new “paradigm” every month and most people go crazy before age 40 trying to keep current. Consequently, getting work done in this area is a black hole for money. I have just cancelled one subcontracted project after too much money was spent on it (and spent the last 2 weeks writing it myself).

However, despite positive indications in some areas, I still think that a lot of basic tech expertise has just disappeared.

you don’t need to be quite so hard-core these days to study IT or electronics

To study, sure, but univs rarely turned out anybody employable in the area studied. The good people were ones who had a keen personal interest in the topic, and they are scarce.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

To study, sure, but univs rarely turned out anybody employable in the area studied.

Wow. Then why do most of our Comp. Sci. bachelors have jobs/job offers before they graduate? Actually to such an extent that very few of them are interested in our master programme. Perhaps 80% of our master students come from abroad.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

“kids these days”

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom
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