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Customer service

And conversely, one of the benefits of being a foreigner from far away (or parachutist, as my father used to call it) is that given a reasonable approach you are judged on your own merits, not so much on preconceived ideas, cross border disdain and widespread prejudices that operate within individual cultures. As a friend of mine says (a fellow who spent 60 or 70 separate months of his life traveling on a motorcycle in Europe, and wrote a book on it now in its 5th edition),“When compared with many other options it’s not so bad to be an American in Europe” Despite my multicultural background I represent myself as American for that reason, while likely having a better understanding than many Americans of the complex and irrational social and class based triggers often in play. Its worked OK for me for my own 50 or so vacation trips to European countries, courtship and marriage Yes, travel is fun.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 16 Jun 17:19

A lot of habits in one place seem bizarre to those from other places, and they are just that – habits that people are expected-to conform to.

They range from feeling like you will be beaten up for less than 20 pc tip in New York to any tip being seen as an insult in Tokyo, and the service habits in Japan are at an entirely different level from the US, it is not a matter of “you get what you pay for”.

Thar is one of the things that make travel so interesting.

Biggin Hill

I have no idea to react to that It’s bizarre and also illegal, if that matters to you. My long standing policy is to avoid NY City (and also, more recently San Francisco) The place is for sure filled with annoying people and annoying social ideas.

I don’t have much trouble regardless at restaurants anywhere. What has more often been a problem for me in Europe is dealing as a customer with vehicle sales and repair, parts suppliers for vehicles including aircraft, government offices, utility and cable TV companies, airlines, building contractors, banks and occasional retail shops. Service business more along the lines of those supplying aircraft operators, having the customer orientation and flexibility of a pile of rocks.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 15 Jun 19:22

While ago after eating in a nice restaurant in NYC, the lovely lady did come to our table and asked “did you like the service honey?”, I said “super good”, she ticked +18%, I think there was +12%, 6% and 0% options on that food bill

That was a steep learning curve for me

Last Edited by Ibra at 15 Jun 17:40
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

That is so ‘classic UK’, grabbing up the idea of tips as a source of revenue but removing the option from the customer, institutionalizing it, and breeding resentment in both staff and clientele. And so you end up with more UK labor relations and customer satisfaction

I have seen similar mandated service charges in the US, and sometimes at numbers like 18%, but for large groups only, not for a normal sized group… The server does get the money in this case and customers aren’t afraid to say they don’t like it and go elsewhere next time,

I’ve never liked theatrical restaurant service either although I kind of like it if they are at least friendly!

Last Edited by Silvaire at 15 Jun 17:36

Neil wrote:

I also know of incidents where restaurant staff in the USA have aggressively demanded larger tips, 20% minimum

Someone who tells me to tip them more will be told where to go!

The attitude is probably a product of them being dependent on tips for the lion’s share of their income.

Interestingly in the UK the approach to tips is completely the opposite. No waiter would ever ask for a tip (or a larger tip) or even make reference to the tip as something that was expected. Culture obviously permeates from the US though, so more and more people tip as standard these days. If I’m honest, I preferred it when tipping was reserved for exceptional service – it was easier to know what to do and created less awkwardness among groups of diners who couldn’t agree on a tip.

Restaurants have dealt with the issue by adding a ‘service charge’ to the bill – 12.5% is normal and near-universal in any establishment serving food above basic pub-grade. Whether the staff actually see the money or whether it’s just more revenue varies by establishment. Some places only add it for parties of a certain size or greater (6 is typical), some add it to all bills. All will remove it if you ask and the bills usually say that in small print, but they bank on people being too embarrassed to do so – which 99% are. I have once asked them to remove it, in a place where the service was truly dreadful.

People can also mean different things by service. Some define service as having a bit of ‘theatre’ – cheery enthusiastic greetings and a bit of chat from your server, lots of explanation of the dishes on the menu, recommendations, etc. Personally I just want them to be polite, attentive, not screw up (forgetting drinks you ordered etc) and I want the food to turn up in a reasonable time – appreciating that the last one is on the kitchen rather than the server. I don’t really want to be asked about my day, where I’m staying, etc. To me a good server/waiter is like a good umpire in cricket – just quietly doing a good job and getting things right, not making themselves the centre of attention.

EGLM & EGTN

Neil wrote:

My experience is the opposite. I find the quality of food in European restaurants to be way above what I find in the USA, although the quantities served in the US seem to be huge.

Sorry, I wasn’t clear. He was constantly disappointed with the service, not the food.

EGLM & EGTN

Customer service at restaurants is a different thing than quality of food. I’d agree that looked at globally, the quality of food in European restaurants tends to be higher for the same price. But notwithstanding @Graham’s comments being in relation to restaurant service, not the food, he also says his uncle’s comparison is to San Diego, which as a county with roughly 3 million people of all types and national origins has large numbers of very good restaurants in terms of food, most of which have pretty good customer service.

I’ve had a lifetime of experience in restaurants (I ate a total of probably 5-10 meals at home between 1989 and 2012) and I’ve not so far seen any waitstaff demanding a higher tip. I do tend to leave the customary 15% in the US, and more if extraordinarily service warrants it, and in Europe I tend to leave more than the locals which I notice wins friends and decent repeat service at restaurants.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 15 Jun 16:53

Graham wrote:

My uncle lived most of his adult life in San Diego. Having recently retired to England (summer) and Spain (winter), he finds himself constantly disappointed – particularly in restaurants.

My experience is the opposite. I find the quality of food in European restaurants to be way above what I find in the USA, although the quantities served in the US seem to be huge.

One cultural difference is that in Europe people generally feel they should be served a correct portion size and eat it; in the US the expectation is to leave a good percentage of what’s served.

I also know of incidents where restaurant staff in the USA have aggressively demanded larger tips, 20% minimum.

Darley Moor, Gamston (UK)

Customer service varies enormously across Europe.

Some of it a cultural thing (with certain countries making poor customer service a national pride) and some of it just bad organisation, or a ritual hate of tourists/foreigners.

In say Croatia, and Greece once away from tourist-heavy places, it is excellent. At this point I would post examples of the opposite, which would not be a good idea

The Channel Islands (the original topic of the discussion of the source thread, before it went off topic) are fine, IME. The Scilly Isles, rather less than fine…

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Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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