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English language proficiency test

I was taught French at school by a French lady and she considered the accent as important as any other part of learning the language. It was a ‘respect for the language’ thing – don’t bother trying to learn the words if you aren’t going to say them properly. It was a very vocal class – not much writing – and I recall a lot of people being made to repeat words until they had the pronunciation just right.

She always complimented me in my accent and to this day, even though I don’t have much French, I still play the game of attempting to pass as a native speaker on first contact, whether with ATC or F2F. I would say I am successful at least 50% of the time and often have to reveal that I’m not going to be able to do the whole conversation in French, but as I think someone mentioned above people seem to really appreciate the fact that you’ve tried.

Last Edited by Graham at 04 Jun 10:06
EGLM & EGTN

That is the point, that you’ve tried. Coming from a non Latin language such as English, there are many things that Brits find it difficult to pronounce. It works the same for French people to learn to pronounce English properly.
For instance why is “show” pronounced differently if you say “I am going to show you something” as opposed to “I am going to take a shower.”
Most English would understand a French person pronouncing the “show in shower in the same way as the show you somerhing” They make allowances.
Sadly for people having a non Latin based maternal language, French is very precise when it comes to pronunciation, and its alphabet rarely changes. Eg the letter “i” is in nearly all cases pronounced as the Anglo Saxon." ee:" as in “eek” so the hotel chain IBIS is always pronounced
“eebeeze” as opposed to the English " eyebiss" or " ihbihs".
Then we introduce the accents. Like in the UK they can differ greatly. Take the Geordie "castle " versus the same in the home counties “carstle”.
Go to Nice or Cannes and the word for morning “matin” becomes “mateen” whereas in most of France where an " i "followed by an “n” becomes “an” and “matin” becomes “mattan”.
These accents can mean that some French people cannot understand accents from other parts of France.
It is because of this precision that foreigners, especially those from the Anglo Saxon world, have difficulty with the precision and pronunciation of the French language in a way that the French can totally understand. Many words that sound the same to the ear of a Brit when spoken, can have totally different meanings. Take “rugis” and “rougis” as an example. To a Brit these words spoken by a Frenchman sound exactly the same. To the French ear they sound vastly different.
Rugis- is mean like a vicious dog
Rougis – to go red or blush.
Fortunately there is only one language in European aviation and that is ICAO phraseology.
Whilst “Vertical terrain” is verteecal tareran (phonetic speĺling) in French base is baz and final is fee nal French pilots tend to understand.
The big differences come in “down wind” which is “vent arrière” pronounced “von t arry air.”
The only other major difference are the runway/piste numbers which are given in pairs 27 being vingt sept (van t set) twenty seven.
The crib sheet is very handy, and French pilots will make allowances, will allow you to stammer it out if necessary, will generally know what to expect because of the common phraseology.
It is only Parisians who expect you to be fluent in the French equivalent of what the UK call BBC pronounciation.
I am pretty sure that if you give it a try not only will French pilots be prepared to help and welcome you but IMO you will get a lot more out of a flying in France than trips to Le Touquet (nothing against Le Touquet, it’s a nice place to visit)

France

Well, there are so many stories and caricatures, some even older than me about how “visibly making an effort” makes a difference in France. You must have heard the one about chocolate croissants…

The much more important point, however, is that this should not matter in aviation. Outside of officially designated FR-only airfields, a foreigner (I know many hate that word, in a Europe which has tried so hard to pretend to not be nationalist, but it seems to have come back in a big way recently with the vaccines, and lately in French aviation with this) is entitled to speak English.

That is how it is supposed to work, worldwide.

We are not talking about buying a coffee. We are talking about aviation, and aviation safety. Many pilots from certain parts of mainland Europe refuse to fly to France, due to this. Obviously they won’t post it on a forum, but they tell me privately when I am trying to organise a meet-up.

Getting back to the topic, ELP is a huge issue which has been compehensively swept under the carpet in ATC (national culture, and/or union pressure). And clearly there is something deeply wrong in the way ELP is examined outside the UK.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

For flying in most of France you can speak to ATSOs in English. I am talking about flying in small airfields.
If foreign pilots are put off coming to France because of language difficulties or a refusal to learn a few words,well that is up to them. IMO they are missing out. In the same way that I think French pilots who see no reason to speak any other language other than that of Joan of Arc, I feel are also missing out.

France

I’m happy to publish here that I just recently passed my english test at level 6 in an online assessment. Yet another recurrent exam that I don’t have to sit again.

I got all questions right, and talked a lot in the interview. There were some “ATIS” to be scanned for some special information, and some other stuff like to listen out for holding instructions, and of course some picture to be described with some details. I got 6 out of 6 in all marks.

I didn’t do a lot for preparation, I used some time driving my car listening to some youtube videos about “improving your accent”, and noted down some ATIS “transmissions” available on youtube.

Germany

UdoR wrote:

improving your accent

Shouldn’t the accent be completely irrelevant for the test? After all, this guy

will get an ELP6 without a test .

Also, how is accentless English defined? For German it is not hard hard to define a neutral accent but I don’t believe this is possible for English.

EDQH, Germany

Shouldn’t the accent be completely irrelevant for the test?

The accent is very relevant if nobody can understand you

Unfortunately the problem is that the examiners are usually from the same country as “you” and they will always understand you just fine, even if no native English speaker can. We’ve discussed this often and it can trigger big problems.

That Australian guy might get an ELP6 in Australia but fortunately he will never find himself in a position where he needs one

UdoR – well done

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Do the ATCOs have to do corresponding exams? Also, a lot of “say again” situations would be avoided if ATC applied a minimum time per syllable rather than rattling off at machine-gun speed. Some episodes in Spain come to mind. But I found this particularly an issue in the USA, though after a few days’ flying I would sort of got acclimatised/acclimatized to it. As for accents, it would be fun if I had kept recordings of some ATC encounters in Africa and Asia …….

Bluebeard
EIKH, Ireland

Peter wrote:

That Australian guy might get an ELP6 in Australia but fortunately he will never find himself in a position where he needs one

I can understand him. You just have to filter out all the mate:s.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

UdoR wrote:

’m happy to publish here that I just recently passed my english test at level 6 in an online assessment. Yet another recurrent exam that I don’t have to sit again.

May I inquire which facility you used? I would love to gain level 6 but most places around here only do level 4 or 5 apparently.

Low-hours pilot
EDVM Hildesheim, Germany
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