Clipperstorch wrote:
This is the first time I’ve heard of a distinction between VFR and IFR for ELP.
FCL.055 does state that IR holders must have ELP and that the assessment can be done differently in that case, but it is very difficult to understand from the regs in what way.
Airborne_Again wrote:
FCL.055 does state that IR holders must have ELP and that the assessment can be done differently in that case
I never understood that regulation which does indeed pop up in various places. I have an ELP6 and do not hold IR privileges. If (when 
) I get an IR, do I need to redo the ELP? My PPL just says I have an English level 6 unlimited validity LP, does not mention VFR or IR
Tango wrote:
I never understood that regulation which does indeed pop up in various places. I have an ELP6 and do not hold IR privileges. If (when ) I get an IR, do I need to redo the ELP?
Likely not required? you have to check with your ATO/IRE and your NAA, the default assumption is IRT skill-test is done in English then the box is ticked…some NAA require separate RTF/ELP tests separated from IRT skill-test (as they allow IRT skill-test in airfield/airspace that mandate local languages even for IFR)
There are some funky stories on this ELP business that rarely surface and are not even mentioned in examiner differences documents, when I did my PPL skill-test in UK while under EASA, I was told by CAA that IAA examiners can’t sign ELP6 during UK PPL skill-test (they used ELP6 signature from my gliding FRTOL instead of PPL skill-test forms), the examiner was a proud Englishman from Essex, he only holds IAA FE because he flies for RyanAir…when this was introduced lot of people have to physically travel to get it sorted
I have an ELP6 and do not hold IR privileges. If (when ) I get an IR, do I need to redo the ELP?
No, and in any case the UK CAA IR examiner can sign off ELP6 there and then – he did mine (2011).
Clipperstorch wrote:
Is this a French thing? This is the first time I’ve heard of a distinction between VFR and IFR for ELP.
Apparently one of the major reasons for introducing a French national IR was to avoid the need for the IFR ELP exam. I can’t find much about it; @Ibra might know more..?
Apparently one of the major reasons for introducing a French national IR was to avoid the need for the IFR ELP exam
That is correct but new IR candidates in France do need ELP, according to posts here – example. The French national IR ended. Conversion route is via getting ELP.
Merci
That is correct, FN-IR is no longer issued by DGAC (those issued are valid lifetime with IR test every year)
There are two conversion routes for FN-IR today:
- If you can get ELP, you have CBIR (no test !)
- If you have no ELP, you have BIR (with test !)
My understanding, the majority of FN-IR holders are N-reg owners who hold FAA IR with ‘English Proficient’: they fly on FN-IR in France and use FAA IR with English elsewhere (like FAA IR holders in UK using IMCR/IRR)
@ Silvaire and an update (for whom it may concern) according to your suggestion to request the evaluation scheme: here the answer of this testing company:
„Thank you for your message! It is understandable that you are questioning this assessment, but the ICAO guidelines state that the lowest level always defines the overall level. This means that if even one of the 12 ratings had been on L5, the “overall level” would also have been an L5. This is the prescribed evaluation process of the ICAO guidelines.“
I‘m wondering why these regulations are not published in advance to anyone who is going to book this LP tests. I was not informed before about these „ICAO guidelines“
This is the prescribed evaluation process of the ICAO guidelines
“Prescribed” and “Guidelines” seem to me to be largely incompatible concepts 
ICAO does not in reality make law and based on that feedback their “guidelines” for examining ELP appear to be silly, wildly overdone, in the context of pilot qualification. The ICAO guidelines also do not prevent the FAA from accepting an FAA designated pilot examiner’s (DPE) evaluation, finding you to be English Language Proficient based on your passing the Private Pilot check ride, and printing it on your credit card sized pilot certificate to remain there for the rest of time. All without any regimented test protocol for English language proficiency, nor a detailed written assessment, nor any grading of specific language attributes.
