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Detailed discussion of medical requirements between LAPL medical and Euro PPL Class 2, and FAA Class 3

LAPL medical

Does anyone know the exact way this is going to work?

I vaguely recall reading somewhere that you will be able to fly with a GP (general doctor) medical, so long as he/she has done some extra "aviation" course and you don't have some specific conditions. If you have those then you have to go to a full AME doctor.

In that respect the LAPL is not as good as the UK NPPL, but it will allow pan-European flight.

This is quite important because most of the people who went to the UK NPPL did so because they could not pass the CAA Class 2 medical. I thus think the popularity of the LAPL will similarly be based strongly on exactly how the medical side works.

But, like the NPPL, it can never support any kind of instrument qualification.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Hi Peter

If you don't have any health issues or a condition which is included in the line up of 20+ odd conditions your GP, if they are so inclined, issue you with your LAPL Medical Certificate.

They need to log that on the CAA website which allows them to print the certificate etc.

GPs can charge for that as it is private work and not an NHS provision.

Those who have a condition listed on the CAA website or who's GP does not want to issue a medical can go to an AME.

Although the requirements for the LAPL medical certificate are less onerous than for an EASA Medical, the amount of time required for the AME is about the same (unless you have a complex medical history) so most AMEs will charge a similar rate to that of an EASA medical.

List of conditions:

Decreased visual acuity in either eye below 6/9 despite any correction
Visual field defect
Need for hearing aid(s)
Angina/coronary artery disease
Cardiac valve replacement
Recurrent fainting
Implanted cardiac device
Heart failure
Chronic lung disease
Pneumothorax
Organ transplant
Cerebral disorder
Epilepsy
Sedative medication
Antidepressant medication
Psychotic disorder
Alcohol/substance misuse
Personality disorder
Learning difficulties
Malignant disease
Diabetes requiring medication
Endocrine disorder
Sleep disorder
Major surgery

[edited for text formatting]

Does anybody know if Night VFR is OK with a LAPL or does it require a full Class II ?

EHLE / Lelystad, Netherlands, Netherlands

Night VFR with a LAPL is ok. See part-FCL.810(a)(1).

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

This comes up from time to time… and amazingly there doesn’t seem to be a detailed comparison anywhere.

We had this thread on losing your medical but no AMEs contributed and for some reason they never seem to want to discuss this openly. Yet they must get loads of customers who fail a medical and need to decide whether to give up flying (which is nearly always avoidable, and is a dumb choice from your health POV, yet most choose exactly that option!) or get themselves “fixed”. It is doubly bizzare because they would get lots of business from EuroGA participation…

I was going to add the UK PMD (pilot medical declaration; currently usable with several UK licenses, though this keeps changing) to the thread title but there is no point because, below 2000kg, with the PMD it is simple: if you can drive, you can fly.

Also is there some hassle if you fail a Class 2 and transition to the LAPL? In the UK you can fail a Class 2 and transition to the PMD openly and the CAA cannot do anything about it. In the US you cannot fail any medical and transition to the Sports Pilot medical (you have to not “actually fail with an AME” to make the transition). With the LAPL I don’t know because you have to engage the medical system in both cases, plus I would suspect that a GP (if doing a GP medical, not an AME one) may be reluctant to sign you off if you failed a Class 2. I know of cases where a GP refused to sign, wrongly, but it is his privilege to do that.

The LAPL medical should be cheaper than a Class 2 but only because it is doable with a GP. The counter argument is that your GP will have your entire medical record whereas your AME won’t And in Germany the AME is not even allowed to request it. I can think of cases where a GP medical would be undesirable.

FAA medicals can be more onerous than European ones, in some cases, too. For example there is the eye alignment test.

A suitable comparison matrix could be produced but it would be a lot of work, with all the AMCs many of which are country-specific.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I had a quick look at part-MED and the major difference in medical fitness requirements seems to be that the rules are much more detailed for class 2 compared to class LAPL.

E.g. in many cases where you have had a medical issue, for class 2 you have to pass specified tests to get your medical back while for class LAPL it is sufficient with “recovery”.

Then of course you need to do the regular medical checks less often with class LAPL.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Peter wrote:

In the US you cannot fail any medical and transition to the Sports Pilot medical (you have to not “actually fail with an AME” to make the transition)

Some clarifications on that point:

1) Before you set yourself up to fail the FAA 3rd Class you instead transition to Basic Med, which is almost the same as the 3rd Class in scope and applicability but with the significant distinction that not unlike a flight review you cannot ‘fail’ in the sense of your quote above, and none of your data goes to FAA. Also it effectively lasts 4 years and any licensed doctor can do it, AME not required unless you can’t find anybody else. There are some specific hard criteria for Basic Med that can prevent the doctor from using their ‘medical discretion’ (the FAA phrase) to certify you, although its noteworthy that none of those criteria are directly ECG/EKG related because as with an FAA 3rd Class no ECG/EKG is required.

2) Some insurance companies are apparently getting edgy about Basic Med for people over 70, at least for now.

3) Later on after you can’t get a Basic Med certification, even after shopping around to multiple doctors (which is allowed, in serial fashion), you only need to hold a US driver’s license to continue flying more limited aircraft under Sport Pilot. The range of Sport Pilot eligible aircraft is apparently going to expand soon.

4) There is no FAA Sport Pilot medical exam, so its more of a cessation of medical certification than a transition

Last Edited by Silvaire at 12 May 01:00

As an AME we have 3 options: issue, defer, deny. Denials are extremely rare and reviewed from above. FAA does promote aviation despite the reputation. That’s why a BP of 95 diastolic is not a disqualifying number.
All 8500 forms are now electronic. The most important item is line 18. Anything there requires explanation. Once that form is submitted by the applicant you have 14 days to complete the form with your AME. With so many CACI’s (special categories (ie Hypertension) that the AME can use to issue) and AASI’s it behooves to the applicant to discuss the items with the AME. Therefore, a document as simple as a letter from the GP can suffice for a CACI but if it takes more than 14 days to obtain those documents your application is deferred. Deferrals are back logged (5-6 months) you need to avoid that. Therefore discuss with your AME any need in advance to obtain those documents to make a CACI possible. Any application submitted electronically that does not get completed by the AME in 14 days get an automatic deferral, just as if you have sent the form and walk out of the of the AME office before evaluation is completed your application is deferred. An AME cannot issue initial AASI’s but once the FAA provides the AASI form we can reissue the license.

Last Edited by magyarflyer at 12 May 02:45
KHQZ, United States

From here

eurogaguest1980 wrote:

As a VFR pilot with a two place aircraft, can I keep flying anywhere if my medical changes over to a LAPL? And then in a year, I go back for the Class 2 and I get two years? Just seeing if I can avoid the hassle and cost of a medical every other year, since I’m (thankfully) in perfect health.

AFAIU, yes. If by “anywhere” you mean “anywhere in EASA-land.”

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

I have nothing against AMEs and in the past have always thought it a good idea that to do any sport one should have a check up. If solely for insurance purposes.
The idea of AME’s does mean that pilots and would be pilots have regular health check ups that maybe they wouldn’t otherwise.
On the flip side, over the last 30 years or so I have seen a tendency for the Class 2 medical becoming a case of 50% or more being paperwork and tests being put in a dossier to be sent off to the DGAC Pôle Médicale, a group of doctors? who sit every 3 months and decide whether a person needs to have a safety pilot, an extra set of glasses, an effort test or a doppler every year etc. To give a few examples.
When, I started to fly the Class 2 medical was a medical at the end of which one came away from the AME with a piece of paper which said APTE or non APTE. If you were non APTE there was a reason. Sometimes the problem could be fixed, sometimes there was a regulation covering the problem eg diabetes. If the problem had to be solved through surgery, there was a time laid out of how long you needed to stop flying after the surgery and what sign offs you needed. I don’t believe it needs some group of people, whose experience you have no idea about and have never met to take medical decisions about whether you can fly or not and if so if restrictions will apply and whose decisions are often contrary to the AME and to a person’s own specialists. I have posted my own case before.
Secondly in countries like France there has been over the last few years a steady decline in the number of GPs. As many of these GPs made up a large part of the AME numbers, there is a shortage, in many areas of AMEs in France.
Many AMEs have also given up being AMEs because as qualified doctors their opinions don’t count anymore because this central Pôle Médicale now dictate more to them what is needed.
Sorry about the rant, and to get back on topic.
In France the Pôle Médicale has decided that an medical for the LAPL must be given by an AME.
I cannot personally compare the physical checks with a full class 2 but my AME is of the opinion that they are pretty much the same except for the paperwork which goes into the dossier to be sent to the Pôle Médicale.
Meanwhile, a large percentage of would be and older pilots are turning to the ULM.
The idea of having to travel further afield to find an AME puts many off.
A note from the doctor, once, followed by self declaration afterwards is very appealing to people who don’t want to do return journeys of 80 to 100km for an AME, every year for the older pilot.
But most importantly I have not read of loads of ULMs falling out of the sky, all over France as pilots drop dead or become totally disabled at the commands.

France
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