Yes; everybody knows about the Siemens fines imposed in the US… and the countries that pay the biggest bribes tend to be quite tight on domestic corruption 
Clearly a big dynamic in supporting this conflict is that countries which donate their hardware get it replaced with fresh stuff 
Especially if the donated hardware was already stored and no longer used, what is not to like? It’s a deal of the century!
On top of that is a general re-armament of W Europe, thanks to Putin. But that will never be sufficient to deal with another Russian invasion, simply because W Europe cannot have a standing army big enough. I have no idea how this will be addressed. In the past it was addressed by UK and American nukes but they are clearly useless if somebody has a go at a “local” level.
Greece will never change but at least they are OK to laugh about it
MedEwok wrote:
n other news the Invasion continues to influence European states decisions for rearmament. In this case LeSving’s homeland:Norway will buy 54 Leopard 2A7 tanks from Germany it was reported today.
WTF! It’s correct. It’s also in the local news here I see. Where this 65 ton monster can be used effectively in Norway is rather limited (far up north to the Russian border is one of very few places), but the choice of the Leopard and not the Black Panther is Sweden and Finland becoming part of NATO, and they both have Leopards, as well as most of NATO. I see it’s only 54 instead of the 70 or 80 planned. The chief of the military who has been against these tanks, now say he is OK with it, but at the same time say that other weapons are more needed (helicopters, long range artillery and drones as well as more air defense missile systems).
Peter wrote:
On top of that is a general re-armament of W Europe, thanks to Putin. But that will never be sufficient to deal with another Russian invasion, simply because W Europe cannot have a standing army big enough. I have no idea how this will be addressed. In the past it was addressed by UK and American nukes but they are clearly useless if somebody has a go at a “local” level.
Post WWII there was a push to unite the Armed Forces of Western Europe under one banner, called the European Defence Community. The plans had progressed really far and were only abandoned at the last minute. Politically it was fairly easy to gather support back then because everyone had only just experienced what it was like of the W. European nations fought each other, and of course the USSR as a common threat made for a unifying effect on the west.
However, the French parliament voted against the treaty and thus it was never ratified. The Europeans were then content because NATO had been formed around the same time and so they were under the US’ nuclear umbrella.
It might be time for revival of these ideas. The original EDC would have unified the defence of France, Italy, Germany and the Benelux countries, not coincidentally also the founding members of the EU’s predecessor, the EEC.
With these countries hopefully unwilling to fight each other ever again, I for one don’t see why they should form a joint military. There already exist joint French-German, Dutch-German afaik also Franco-Belgian (?) military units so this would only be the next logical step. The most difficult question might be which language to use, where my personal suggestion would be to use French, German and English and make it mandatory for each soldier to know two of these.
Capitaine wrote:
Peter wrote: here. I guarantee almost nobody will watch the 1hr+ videos, but I did.After that challenge I had to watch one
It was balanced and well informed, and worth taking the time
I have watched a few. I find them disconcertingly good – what individual can research and edit such long and detailed videos and churn them out on a regular basis? I know the big YouTubers often have a staff to help with editing and research. I’d be interested to know what his background is.
LeSving wrote:
It’s less than a year ago since Covid was gone, and already I’m thinking “yes, there was something called Covid back in the days” The whole circus just seems so distant. And what a circus it was.
If mankind is good at something it is denial and proclaiming wishful thinking “fact”.
On Feb19 2022 Peter wrote:
My money would be on Putin withdrawing, but not before he takes things to the very edge. This isn’t 1968…
On Feb20 2022 LeSving wrote:
Anyway, no invasion as of yet. Maybe it will stay that way?
On Feb 20 2022 Maoraigh wrote:
I see the “Russia is going to invade Ukraine” media and politician statements as propaganda.
On Feb 24 2022 after the news broke Graham wrote:
Did anyone doubt it would?
And that was only from our forum, which is quite a bit more educated than what went on in the press prior to Feb 24.
If you look at the start of the Covid thread, you see the same denials right up to the point where, well, when actually? Up to today actually.
And if you look around the current posts, lots more “ah, no, won’t happen”, “oh, well, that is ancient history (Covid)” e.t.c.
We can hope that that wishful thinking becomes truth but judging by the last few years, I’d rather go with Murphy here and fully expect that the more we are in denial is opposite to the probability of that happening.
Well Mooney Driver, you must be the happiest man alive. You seem to have a very gloomy view on the future on most things, but you are always proven wrong in the end
Predicting stuff is difficult business, especially stuff about the future
My point was that some day the Ukraine war will be over. And just like Corona, the world will keep on going as if nothing has happened. Humanity will not end and the sun will not explode.
LeSving wrote:
Humanity will not end and the sun will not explode.
Try telling that to the Flat Earth Society.
Meanwhile
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oh,_What_a_Lovely_War!
As Shell announce record profits of $40 billion. A UK company paying effectively 2p tax in the UK.
Perhaps another thread of who actually profits from war…Not the people I can betchya.
What energy crisis I hear them cry..
Mooney_Driver wrote:
If mankind is good at something it is denial and proclaiming wishful thinking “fact”.
Please. Covid-19 did not mean the end of civilization as we know it which was repeatedly claimed by some in this forum.
Finally watched the long video Peter referred to in post 1351. Seems like a thorough piece of work, really worthwhile to spend an hour on. So the bottom line is that we may be underestimating the conventional capabilities and resilience of Russia. The narrative of ‘hordes of demotivated, incapable soldiers with WW2 equipment running out of hardware and ammo’ needs bit of nuance to put it mildly. Are these new Western tanks and missiles and maybe even F16’s really going to make such a difference?
