the latest two not too long ago, where people flew into well (or not so well) charted hills, possibly trying to maintain VMC
The DIY IAP should allow one to descend IFR down to 300ft above obstacles (295ft to be precise) then say finish it VFR in VMC, hopefully with 3D guidance you know exactly where the runway sits and no more than 1min of shitshow bellow MSA (the alternative is 1h of 100% legal VFR cruise bellow MSA with remain VMC at 500ft agl and probably lower than obstacles heights)
Here is one two days ago, it’s ULM so no IFR, surely 100% legal VFR flying with ground in sight while trying to remain VMC, sadly he did hit a 100ft agl pylon (nothing official and engine failure could happen but so far it’s VFR in IMC bellow MSA)
Thr question is "why was he flying in weather that meant he had to do this?
We know scud running is risky. But accident reports show that so is entering IMC without the necessary equipment and without proper training. Heads don’t win tails you lose.
He was flying a local but decided to turn back home when FIS told him weather did close in front & behind him, in VFR/ULM aircraft, it’s turn back or pick a field before it’s too late
As they said if it gets marginal on both ends, the mess is likely to be found in the middle…
Good luck finding an explanation why pilots scud run (even those IR rated & IFR equipped tend to do it rather than turn or bite the bullet and climb, those with PPL will push it and may fail to turn back)
The problem for many/most ULMs is that they don’t have an AI or turn coordinator. There have been several such cases this year but on those occasions the SIV, Military and ATC people have managed to talk them to safety.
Feel free to discuss anything totally unrelated here.
But to pick up my original intention with this thread, I start to note that some nuggets are here in the forum, like situation in The Netherlands (thanks @Peter for digging this out) or in France .
I think one thing why FIs don’t make international flights during instrument flight training is that they just don’t feel proficient themselves with all these regulations which differ so much from country to country even within Europe. There’s a lot what you can do wrong.
So flying VFR one sticks generally to small airports, whereas flying IFR the opposite is true. But it gets increasingly interesting how to fly IFR to and from small airports throughout Europe. From time to time I’ll continue to gather infos about this.
UdoR wrote:
I think one thing why FIs don’t make international flights during instrument flight training is that they just don’t feel proficient themselves with all these regulations which differ so much from country to country even within Europe. There’s a lot what you can do wrong.
I may be mistaken (and sacrastic) but was not the idea of the great EASA to exactly do away with this national regulations?
What is the point of drawing up things like SERA, Part NCO, Part younameit if in the end each country finds their little niches where they can preserve their old rules?
On the other hand, FI’s who are incapable of getting up to speed with at least the surrounding countries so they avoid flying there because of this should get their act together. As FI’s they need to be more proficient than their students. If I teach something, I need to be current.
UdoR wrote:
I think one thing why FIs don’t make international flights during instrument flight training is that they just don’t feel proficient themselves
My advice get yourself an IRI who is an “IFR owner” or “SET/Jet pilot”, they know 1/ how to fly cross borders, 2/ they know how to fly to VFR airfields, 3/ less fetishism on VOR/NDB, 4/ they fly SEP in IMC, 5/ you may get an invitation when they fly/ferry and 6/ you may enjoy spending night with them in a hotel 
You can always find an FI who can help with the rating & passing the test (yes not many will be keen to go fly an approach in the nearby country with cross channel in dodgy weather and back at 9pm)
In case this gets missed, GSA now talks about IFR to VFR airfields in Nov2021 (they used to talk about IFR to IFR airfields without ATS in Sep2019 using GPS/EGNOS), be warned, they don’t say much about how one practically avoids obstacles but their view is the “legal risk” can be well mitigated by flooring IAP on landing IFR then VFR circling in VMC:
- For landing, I honestly, I think it’s a good “legal compromise”: if anyone flies straigh-in in my airfield in good weather with busy circuit, VFR or IFR, I will go and have a talk with them and show them how to fly circuits and it also make sense as one should view DIY IAP as bridge to flip-flop between “legal VFR flying in VMC at 500ft near aerodrome” with “legal IFR flying above MSA en-route”, if someone wants straigh-in to 200ft they can pick between their own backyard or ILS+ATC !
- For takeoff, there is not much guidance but I guess as discussed one is 100% legal to depart VFR with 1.5km and declare IFR at 50ft, who can say it’s not legal? other than mountains and airspace? it’s always legal to climb IFR to MSA, anyone with an IR is entitled to that right: it’s the 2nd amendment of IFR flying
https://www.euspa.europa.eu/sites/default/files/uploads/safety_assessment_guidelines_for_ga.pdf
Ibra wrote:
be warned, they don’t say much about how one practically avoids obstacles
And there is the issue. At the risk of @Peter moving this back to the original Austrian accident thread for being “back-on-original-topic” 
, departing from or arriving at an airfield and flying IFR below, say, 500ft and/or close to obstacles is a lot harder than following a well-designed procedure. The amount of preparation and diligence required to do this safely can be quite high, and there is not much to fall back on when things go wrong.
To get the same level of “help”, you need to have the whole departure or approach procedure mapped out to the point where you are certain you will be above MSA and/or in VMC, plus the plan B when it doesn’t work. Everyone who has tried to climb on top IFR and able to “already see the sun” knows that on occasion that means another thousand or more feet to climb. Imagine you depart in a valley thinking “I will be on top at 500ft” and engage in some spontaneous IFR only to find out that you don’t make it. Now what?
That preparation needs to include thinking about “what happens if I screw up”. So in that accident, there is not only the question what led to the right turn and ultimate CFIT (bad plan or bad execution), but also what means he had and used to figure out that things went wrong (EGPWS?)
Cobalt wrote:
departing from or arriving at an airfield and flying IFR below, say, 500ft and/or close to obstacles is a lot harder than following a well-designed procedure. The amount of preparation and diligence required to do this safely can be quite high, and there is not much to fall back on when things go wrong.
For landing you have to be very familiar with the place (there are no lights on low VFR without GPS you won’t be able to find it), if one sticks to say 300ft MOC on flat obstacles surface +/-x nm along runway axis, there is not much rocket science going on in a DIY IAP (obviously MDH > 500ft), especially when flying with 3D guidance as you know here the runway and threshold are without even seeing them, you also need to know what to expect in terms of weather, say doing nearby ILS first before flying IFR again: to gather actual weather data, judge your skills and warm up the party, after all you may not be as good as you think and weather may not be easy as you think
If one gets into 3D complex designs to get 200ft MDH in 600m grass with trees with STOL flying on Synt-Vision, sooner or later they will hit the jackpot, who never botched an ILS in challenging weather and all what saved their day was a long runway? even worse, landing safely without even knowing why it went badly this time and not in many previous times?
Cobalt wrote:
only to find out that you don’t make it. Now what?
That is a tough one, stick to the plan ! (easier said that done)
I agree having EGPWS or terrain warning/awareness comes handy,
- For landing if you get a warning, you may save the day
- For takeoff if you get a warning, it’s game over (it’s a FYI not WARN)
Of course one need to check how that thing works? on GPS/SkyDemon only if you remove departure/destination from FPL….
