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PC-12 down in Milan Linate

Accident reports can take years to come out. I think sometimes it is because lawyers are involved, and accident investigators are wary of lawyers.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Hello,
What is the latest news on this accident ? was a report or analysis published ?

Cessna Silver Eagle C10T owner / pilot
LFPN, France

I like that video of F33C, I saw D-ENIR displaying this year at LaFerteAlais late August, it’s poetry (it has full IFR equipment inside, I will ask for a ride under the hood one day )

Vref wrote:

Well OK that’s true but what kind of real flying UPRT would get you close…

I guess once one has IR/UPRT training basics they are left with getting comfortable with their specific aircraft, take it in plain VMC with lot of spare height, slow it, pitch up/down, bank left/right with/without power, with/without gear, 360deg orbits and make your own mind, if you wanna proceed to the same test in real or simulated IMC…you should be able to judge what is possible and what is not, there is the bias that you know how you got there but you get an appreciation of how fast things can go bad, especially with full power & gear up

Under normal IFR you are flying +8deg/-3deg pitch and +/-25 deg bank all the time and most likely on AutoPilot (which is a good & healthy for LOS/LOC prevention but useless for recoveries) beyond these values you are in the realm of hand flying what to expect when it goes LOC

I once tried auto-pilot ON during steep unusual attitudes with Century AP in the Archer, the results were not very good, you have to take the matter quickly in your own hand, I am sure it will manage it but I did not have the patience maybe Garmin LVL does these thing better?

Last Edited by Ibra at 08 Oct 12:08
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Upset recovery is very type specific, and even the A-UPRT course where, for example, a standard call out is for the automatics off, is not universal depending on scenario and type.

There is also quite a high proportion of LOC accidents, where the crew recovered from the initial LOC but lost it on a subsequent LOC because they failed to stabilise, or recognise they were recovered, and got themselves totally confused.

LOC appears to have consolidated its position as the leading threat, and I expect over time the UPRT instruction will continue to evolve. Certainly the A-UPRT course as devised, is a big improvement on some of the old UPRT courses where a lot of the content was ‘fun’ flying for the instructor.

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom

The last minutes of the vid goes into that aspect…

Great video, especially last minutes showing instrument perspective.

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

Found on the internet

High performance turbine singles seem to be the new upmarket ‘Doctor Killers’. People with plenty of money but too little training and not enough hours killing themselves and their families.

Any truth in that statement?

Last Edited by Snoopy at 08 Oct 11:13
always learning
LO__, Austria

Ibra wrote:

this goes into upset recovery training or aerobatics courses but one lacks the IFR/LSO elements, the emphasis is you don’t go there and if you do it unconsciously, it’s highly unlikely you will be back

Well OK that’s true but what kind of real flying UPRT would get you close…
The last minutes of the vid goes into that aspect…The F33C is relatively heavy aircraft to perform this kind of maneuvers in real, note how fast the airspeed winds up when he goes down.
@T28 I don’t have access to level D 777 simulator (anyway they are sitting comfy in there seat at 1g…while the instructor is saying nicely done.. :-)) I think the atmosphere in the Air France A330 who ditched was less relaxed….

EBST

. I think we pilots could learn a lot from a URT in a high performance aircraft like an F33C.

Push and roll is standard recovery, even in somewhat bigger models.

https://youtu.be/OasrxfOvPr8

T28
Switzerland

I don’t think this is anything about PC12 (but it has a powerful unforgiving engine and some slick clean airframe), the trigger is likely hand flying with transition to IMC in steep climbing turn while doing a prolonged 270deg turn (departure procedure seems to avoid overflying the city on takeoff), I don’t know how much hand flying the pilot has in total or recently but it take time to get in the mood and things do get busy on departure and one may fail to watch the aircraft every 1s

This is not the case of pilot who was flying in IMC in a dark night over water for 2h and got swamped into the unknown, he had plenty of VMC to catch it bellow…

Unusual attitudes in IR training is rather very light in terms of pitch & bank angles (RHS can’t afford to set a non-aerobatic type at +/-60deg pitch & bank), this goes into upset recovery training or aerobatics courses but one lacks the IFR/LSO elements, the emphasis is you don’t go there and if you do it unconsciously, it’s highly unlikely you will be back

Last Edited by Ibra at 08 Oct 10:11
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

This one is interesting about upset recovery:



In a clean aircraft the airspeed build up goes very fast when going vertical down….The interesting part of this video is when he is inverted, were is the lift vector in respect toward the horizon… note what he explains, push & roll toward shortest angle to get the blue back up. I could imagine this in PC12 is just seconds toward overspeed. I think we pilots could learn a lot from a URT in a high performance aircraft like an F33C.

EBST
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