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PC-12 down in Milan Linate

Looking at the FR data can be massively deceiving

For aircrafts with ADSB and proper linkages (I believe this PC12 would have that), you get cockpit data rather than numerical noise

Paris/Essex, United Kingdom

172driver wrote:

Not if you had a heart attack and slumped over the controls (A/P off).

One possibility. Another might be runaway trim…. this is known to happen on the PC-12. The fix is simple, but one needs to recognize the problem and apply the fix.

LSZK, Switzerland

A video of the crash has been published here: Corriere della Sera

LOWI,LIPB, Italy

Thanks @lukepower.

I don’t see any evidence of a post crash fire in this video, but it is more than obvious that the plane came down at a close to vertical pitch and very high speed.

LSZH, Switzerland

They didn’t suffer that much…

LFMD, France

Mooney_Driver wrote:

I don’t see any evidence of a post crash fire in this video,

You probably mean pre-crash fire. I don’t see any either. The usual eye ‘witness’ accounts of airplane on fire, falling out of the sky almost always are nonsense. Wonder which psychological phenomenon is behind that. It pops up at almost every crash with witnesses.

Horrible accident, and from 5000ft only some 10-20 seconds. It is a lesson to everyone just how fast things can fall apart.

Yet the PC12 is a relatively docile plane, capable of 500m grass runways, often seen here at the Scilly Isles, parked up on the sloping grass.

Is the aircraft intact in the video?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

172driver wrote:

Wonder which psychological phenomenon is behind that. It pops up at almost every crash with witnesses.

There is some interesting research on that: One of the core reasons is, that a large share of “witnesses” actually did not even see the accident. In German we call them “Knall-Zeugen” (lit: “Bang-Wintnesses”): They just became aware that something is happening when they hear the noise of the impact.
It’s important to mention that these witnesses are not lying in a technical sense: They really believe that they witnessed the accident. The human mind is incredibly good at making up an artificial past for a status quo one observes.
Therefore many people immediately have the picture in mind of a plane falling from the sky burning (they typically get this from WW2 movies) when they hear the noise of the plane hitting the ground.

Germany

172driver wrote:

You probably mean pre-crash fire.

Yea, thanks for pointing that out. Stupid mistake.

172driver wrote:

The usual eye ‘witness’ accounts of airplane on fire, falling out of the sky almost always are nonsense.

Absolutely. That is why I discard such observations beyond “a plane crashed” almost totally, unless there are additional materials such as photos and videos which support it.

Malibuflyer wrote:

It’s important to mention that these witnesses are not lying in a technical sense: They really believe that they witnessed the accident. The human mind is incredibly good at making up an artificial past for a status quo one observes.

There is an incredibly good movie about this. While it is not about an airplane crash but an assassination attempt and failed at the box office, it shows these points brutally. I saw it once (must get a copy actually) during a seminar which had a segment about perception and witness statements.

I agree, these people are not lying at all, they are totally convinced that they have seen what they have seen. I recall one accident fairly close to me: Alitalia at Zurich. They crashed at night into a hill after following a dead glideslope. Following that crash, there was a large amount of witnesses from a village the plane had overflown literally seconds before smashing into the hill who all claimed the plane had been on fire, which was not the case. What they had seen was the interaction of the rotating beacon on the belly of the airplane and possibly the landing lights with the cloud fragments.

What has become a real asset to early accident deliberation are various security cams as well as videos and pics by ordinary people with handy cams. The downside is that many of those alleged materials are fake. But also TSB’s today are quite welcoming to genuine materials. They played a massive role in several investigations of recent times, including the Ju Air Disaster near Flims a few years back.

LSZH, Switzerland

Mooney_Driver wrote:

There is an incredibly good movie about this. While it is not about an airplane crash but an assassination attempt and failed at the box office, it shows these points brutally. I saw it once (must get a copy actually) during a seminar which had a segment about perception and witness statements.

This is also related to the invisible gorilla experiment.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden
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