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PC-12 down in Milan Linate

Sounds like a loss of control from entering IMC in a turn, maybe following a visual departure? or TOSVA departure?

Last Edited by Ibra at 04 Oct 10:33
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Very odd typical SOP is A/P and Yaw damper on at 300’ AGL.

Sad outcome RIP

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom

Ibra wrote:

Sounds like a loss of control from entering IMC in a turn, maybe following a visual departure? or TOSVA departure?

Where on earth would you get that impression? Anyone that flies a PC12 will be instrument rated and have had specific training on type.
I would suggest that you are simply jumping to a conclusion based on the identity of the pilot with no knowledge of the circumstances of this terrible accident.

Darley Moor, Gamston (UK)

Neil wrote:

Where on earth would you get that impression? Anyone that flies a PC12 will be instrument rated and have had specific training on type

Speed was increasing and rate of climb was decreasing in the whole turn, it could be something else but the most plausible scenario is loss of control (I doubt it’s engine failure, it’s rare and would not result in loss of control anyway, it could be instrumentation failure in IMC ?)

I would not down play the loss of control in IMC on entering clouds on departure, it could happen to anyone, I am not sure why you think an IR pilot who is TR in PC12 would be immune to the confusion of climb & turn on entering clouds after takeoff?

Sadly it happens to IR/TR qualified pilots as well,
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/57d6baa6ed915d6cfa000040/Beech_B200_Super_King_Air__G-BYCP_10-16.pdf

We will see what one can learn from the accident report, for now RIP for that family !

Last Edited by Ibra at 04 Oct 12:36
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Ibra wrote:

I would not down play the loss of control in IMC on entering clouds on departure, it could happen to anyone, I am not sure why you think an IR pilot who is TR in PC12 would be immune to the confusion of climb & turn on entering clouds after takeoff?

According to johnh, the cloud base was 5000’. If there was a LOC on entering clouds, wouldn’t 5000’ of visual conditions be enough to recover control? I think LOC in IMC is a highly unlikely cause.

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 04 Oct 13:09
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

If I understand the press correctly, the pilot was the owner.

And while the fact alone that this is a pilot/owner does not warrant a suspicion of lack of flying skills (he had the plane for quite some time), the trajectory is anything but normal, if the published data are anything to go by. The horizontal flight path itself could well have been on radar vectors however or a visual turnout to rejoin the direct track towards the southwest, where the destination lies.

Speed and vertical path however become erratic just at what appears to be a level off, which occurred at 5300 ft AMSL, corresponding to about 5000 ft AGL, exactly the cloud base. And by the looks of it, they came down almost vertical. That is highly unusual.

I am sceptical about a lot of things here: The alleged withness reports of fire of the engine are notoriously doubtful. But never the less, the way the airplane came down would indicate something rather drastic was happening in the last phase of the flight.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

If there was a LOC on entering clouds, wouldn’t 5000’ of visual conditions be enough to recover control?

Well, except that it came down at something like 10,000 fpm. Yes, I agree that it OUGHT to be possible to recover in 5000 feet, much less even. But clearly something happened at 5000 that resulted in a VERY rapid descent. It COULD be something mechanical, and we’ll probably never know given the state of the wreckage.

the pilot was the owner.

Not according to the BBC. Their report this morning said the owner was a passenger. The pilot was a Romanian with German citizenship, 30 years old. The report mentions another non-family person, a woman with Romanian/French nationality, though it doesn’t explicitly say she was SIC.

Last Edited by johnh at 04 Oct 13:20
LFMD, France

This FlightRadar24 speed and altitude depiction is interesting, as is the adsbexchange data.
At takeoff the speed increased to what appears to be about 125kt and then stayed at about that while the aircraft climbed with a steady ROC to just over 2000ft at which point speed increased to about 200kt while climb continued at the same rate. Then around 4’000ft the ROC increased dramatically and the speed dropped off just as dramatically. Then the speed increased again just as dramatically while altitude remained more or less steady until altitude and speed fell off a cliff at around 5’000ft apparently very close to the accident site in both time and distance.

LSZK, Switzerland

Some more details here: Corriere della Sera

In short: The owner was also the pilot, and shortly after takeoff continued turning to the right without reaching the initial altitude. Pilot reported a “little deviation”, and afterwards asked for vectors to get back to the airport.

LOWI,LIPB, Italy

johnh wrote:

Not according to the BBC. Their report this morning said the owner was a passenger. The pilot was a Romanian with German citizenship, 30 years old. The report mentions another non-family person, a woman with Romanian/French nationality, though it doesn’t explicitly say she was SIC.

Ok, would make more sense.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland
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