UdoR wrote:
Why would that be? Here they tell us that it is even investigated whether military transport services are usable to deliver petrol to the stations, as lack of fuel was such a big issue at the moment. And at the same time stating, that Brexit was the cause and that all was going down and so on.But even BBC and other British media houses inform about petrol supply shortage.
If it was only panic buys then we have the same situation like with toilet paper (and pasta) during first Corona wave
The allegations doing the rounds are that fuel supply companies have engineered the situation (i.e. fed the media untrue suggestions of shortages, which they are happy to amplify) in order to seek government concessions which would make their businesses more profitable, e.g. being allowed to use cheap imported labour and being allowed to collude with each other to keep prices high. Whether this is true I don’t know but I would not rule it out – large international companies would I’m sure be prepared to engage in some quite dirty tactics to ensure they can keep paying Romanian-level wages (rather than UK-level) for distribution.
The media outlets now report on the panic buying, not alleged shortages, but the damage is done and as with the loo roll situation it only ends when the idiots have exhausted their idiocy for the time being. 500% of normal demand is in the right ballpark – when I was out and about over the weekend the queues at all petrol stations were enormous and normally one almost never has to queue for petrol – a pump is usually vacant upon arrival. I have no reason to suspect any real shortage – at 500% demand then individual petrol stations will be running dry the same day because the system operates just-in-time deliveries.
So in summary there may be a shortage or there may not be. But it doesn’t really matter, because if demand spikes to 500% of normal due to panic-buying then you will have major problems instantly, whether there’s a shortage or not.
And at the same time stating, that Brexit was the cause and that all was going down and so on.
48% of the UK voted against, so there is a large pool of people happy to do this. And with >90% of the mainland, no shortage of coverage of how the UK is on its knees 
But even BBC and other British media houses inform about petrol supply shortage.
The BBC is almost completely useless for news. The content is dumbed down, non-controversial, PC, aimed at the absolutely thick. Maybe OK for who won the golf…
If it was only panic buys then we have the same situation like with toilet paper (and pasta) during first Corona wave
Yes, but while people can store hundreds of toilet rolls, they can’t store much liquid fuel. Except in jerrycans but they are all sold out
The future might bring micro nukes, i.e. very small sized nuclear power stations; An interesting concept..
Yes; a lot in the news lately. Would be great. I actually do not understand why a country has to get finance from say China, or EDF, to build big stations. If it makes financial sense to these 3rd parties (which have exactly zero interest in the UK) it must make financial sense to the govt here.
The allegations doing the rounds are that fuel supply companies have engineered the situation (i.e. fed the media untrue suggestions of shortages, which they are happy to amplify) in order to seek government concessions which would make their businesses more profitable, e.g. being allowed to use cheap imported labour and being allowed to collude with each other to keep prices high. Whether this is true I don’t know but I would not rule it out – large international companies would I’m sure be prepared to engage in some quite dirty tactics to ensure they can keep paying Romanian-level wages (rather than UK-level) for distribution.
Very plausible.
But… I work above a petrol station and while they have run out of diesel, they have petrol, and there is NO queue. So maybe people got bored with queing?
In the meantime, no shortage of jokes
Peter wrote:
So maybe people got bored with queing?
Well, everyone’s fuel tanks are full now. When demand goes 500% above normal, it’s not going to be sustained for very long.
When demand goes 500% above normal, it’s not going to be sustained for very long.
Indeed, but the traffic can be sustained if lots of people queue for an hour to top off a 90% full tank.
Interesting thing on TV today, showing a chart of truck driver shortages across Europe. Every major country was showing 50k-100k drivers short. How they worked it out I don’t know, because all these countries, UK included, are obviously currently functioning.
UdoR wrote:
And at the same time stating, that Brexit was the cause and that all was going down and so on.
Seems like most evildoing has a root cause on Brexit or EU Not unlike La Ninja and El Nino 
Peter wrote:
I don’t know, because all these countries, UK included, are obviously currently functioning.
I went shopping out here in the Wild West this evening. The supermarket bakery was open – it wasn’t on Friday – and most of the shelves were reasonably well stocked. The entire frozen food section was empty. Fruit and veg supplies were a bit hit and miss, but a world better than the Co-Op in Lampeter a few weeks ago where there was almost no fresh produce at all. It’s hardly a great privation, but let’s say you decide on supper whilst you’re shopping rather than going shopping with a recipe in hand.
Peter wrote:
Indeed, but the traffic can be sustained if lots of people queue for an hour to top off a 90% full tank.Interesting thing on TV today, showing a chart of truck driver shortages across Europe. Every major country was showing 50k-100k drivers short. How they worked it out I don’t know, because all these countries, UK included, are obviously currently functioning.
The obvious immediate solution is a temporary minimum charge, e.g. £40, at every petrol retailer. If you cannot get £40 worth into the tank, you still have to pay £40 for what you’ve taken. Even £40 may be a bit low – if we say the average car holds about £75 worth at current prices and we’re looking to nudge people not to fill up unless they’re below 1/4 tank, then perhaps set it at ~£55.
Truck driver shortages are in interesting case study for the integrated pilot training schools and their ‘upcoming pilot shortage’ advertising materials. A nice way to show that a shortage is when you simply cannot get people to do the job, rather than when the applicants-to-vacancy ratio drops from 200:1 to 100:1.
Whether Brexit is a factor…. probably. It gives us less flex than other European countries, who also seem to be suffering shortages. Regardless, it isn’t a good long-term plan to have a transport industry based on migrant labour at perhaps half of the domestic cost, so perhaps it is all for the best.
What is interesting is that the industry evidently expects the government to sort the problem out somehow in a way that won’t cost them anything. If we are 100,000 HGV drivers short of what we need, one might expect to see companies offering fully paid-for training plus attractive starting salaries to unqualified applicants. But we’re not seeing that – we’re seeing companies offering a little bit more money to already-qualified drivers. Clearly the margins in the industry are sacrosanct and there’s a tacit agreement between companies not to erode them by pushing employment costs up.
Even Waitrose, widely regarded as one of the best employers out there, are only offering £43-51k per annum plus a £1k signing bonus, for a 47.5 hour week. And you must already hold the licence. They must know that if they wanted some applicants then they need to offer about 20% more money, a five-day week rather than six-day, plus pay for the training.
The obvious immediate solution is a temporary minimum charge, e.g. £40
That would do it but could never be imposed in a “free” country like the UK.
However there is another factor, apparently. An amazing % of people put in say £20 each time they fill up. I’ve never done that because it is obviously totally dumb. It just means you refuel about 3x more often than if you filled right up. But, apparently, a large % of people either have only the £20, or they feel like they have only the £20. And now they are filling right up, hence the transient extra fuel demand. And if you tried to stop this practice you would have a million civil libertarians trying to kill you for forcing these people into poverty, etc, etc, ignoring the fact that it costs way more than £20 to run a car, etc…
Graham wrote:
if we say the average car holds about £75 worth at current prices and we’re looking to nudge people not to fill up unless they’re below 1/4 tank, then perhaps set it at ~£55.
I can barely get £55 worth of fuel in my car even if the range remaining is showing only 5 miles, and my motorcycle only takes £20 from empty to brimming.
Even with the massive ‘panic’ demand, despite some forecourts running dry and queues at others I believe you can also say the system is coping.
I visited 3 locations that were dry and 1 with big queues. The next was a 2 minute wait and was fine. If that is what occurs when the dumb public panic to a spike of 500% demand then obviously there is enough fuel and there is (albeit under strain) enough drivers.
What is more likely is there is a shortage under the normal requirements for drivers. There will be job leavers, normal retirement, sickness and holiday that all needs covering and that is not a trivial thing.
Today I passed 2 of the previous mentioned ‘Dry’ petrol stations and they both had fuel (and queues)
Unfortunately these days the BBC is a terrible place to get ‘news’.
It is very anti government and desperate for a scandal or scoop.
Infact most media has gone far too much that way.
I only listen with 1 ear these days and my starting point is to look for the hype and BS so I can immediately filter it out.
