I don’t stop for more than five minutes when I’m trying to get somewhere in a day. 700 or 800 miles per day is typical, in let’s say 12 hrs.
On less focused trips (i.e. my trips in Europe) it would be really annoying to me to have to pre-plan a regimented route like a military campaign when driving and not be able to plan as I go, or alternately not plan as I go. Much like the process of flying a plane long distance in Europe, both the preparation required and the prospect of carrying out the trip itself are very unattractive to me.
The idea of planning a route as described using a software package that optimizes the route around recharging makes me feel vaguely ill. I’ll be traveling in a very different fashion on my next alpine trip in September.
Silvaire wrote:
The idea of planning a route as described using a software package that optimizes the route around recharging makes me feel vaguely ill. I’ll be traveling in a very different fashion on my next alpine trip in September.
I don’t think you understand the concept at all. These are simply charging options, you don’t plan your trip around them. I can plot a route between any two points, and I can add intermediate stops wherever I want. The app/in-car nav simply helps you pick your charging spots based on the route you’ve chosen.
But I’m telling you it’s not an issue. You can choose not to believe that, but it’s the truth. I was concerned it would be on my first long road trip, but it’s just not. Comparing it to flight planning is just silly. In my Tesla I don’t plan anything. I get in the car and drive, just like I would in an ICE car. The car makes recommendations about charging stations along the way, but you can also just keep driving. It’s exactly like watching your range and deciding when to get gas. I stop when I’m hungry or someone needs to pee, and I use the recommendations to help me choose. When you do it for yourself the first time, your objections will disappear.
Just stumbled on this thread and the discussion about range makes me want to share my $0.02 of very recent (and actually first) experience with an electric car. As a disclaimer, we live in downtown Munich and have not owned a car for over 8 years now. A big part of the value proposition is that we live near the central station, and my hangar/airplane is very well accessible by train.
Back to topic, we rent a car when we need one, for instance to go on vacation with the family, like this week (They do not like to fly). This time we got a Jeep Compass plug-in hybrid – picture a big, black, show-off-like SUV. We started from Munich with a full tank and 0% charge level. Midway through the Alps the car warned me of a low fuel level. I refuelled at the next (super expensive) fuel station, put 26 liters (!) in it! First surprise, the tank has a capacity of 30 liters! WHAAAT? 30 liters only? This is good for approx. 400-450km.
Yesterday we visited Locarno, found an EV charging station downtown, decided to give it a try. I somehow overlooked the fact that parking on that spot costs 1 Fr/hr while charging, and 4 Fr/hr once charging is complete. Result, 12 Francs spent (only 5 for the charge), OK my mistake here. Now second surprise, a full charges gives you 50 km autonomy!!!
So, how can a manufacturer of a car created to hit the road (we are not speaking of a VW Lupo here!) market something with such low autonomy? This is beyond me. I am not convinced by the concept. Are you?
I can’t think of anything worse 700 or 800 miles in a day without stopping for more than 5 minutes at a time. My wife complains now because I have a get there sort of complex. If I drive for more than 4hours without stopping for coffee or something to eat I get a whole lotbof grief.
My last drive of that length in a day was about 800 miles, four of us in the vehicle with food on board, towing an enclosed trailer with six motorcycles also on board. We actually enjoyed it quite a bit, it was a good way to ‘catch up’ with friends. Four other couples flew in from elsewhere in the country and all six motorcycles departed on our ‘real’ trip the next morning. We then did a couple of hundred miles a day on motorcycles for the next week, in Idaho and Montana, before loading up again for the one-day return trip. A good time was had by all, although on a motorcycle there are a lot more roads to spontaneously explore in the Alps. Many of those don’t show well on most GPS maps, never mind some EV charging map.
I have driven electric vehicles (Tesla Model S) for Euro-style urban driving (100 miles out, 100 miles back) and while I’d rather be in real car, as a toy for that kind of limited use they work OK.
Silvaire wrote:
That’s roughly half to a third of my daily driving on a road trip.
And how is your daily driving routine relevant to other people? If you don’t want an electric car, then don’t get one, but don’t complain about other peoples’ choices.
I’m not complaining about other people’s choices, they have every right to spend their money on whatever they want, just like me. I am bemused by the rather naive and blinkered view of the world outside their own, and the view by some that if others were ‘enlightened’ they’d choose to conform to a very constrained, government promoted, taxpayer funded choice that I’m helping to fund.
how can a manufacturer of a car created to hit the road (we are not speaking of a VW Lupo here!) market something with such low autonomy? This is beyond me. I am not convinced by the concept. Are you?
They can and they do. Hybrids are like that. They are a poor solution, and really solve only one specific issue: slow traffic in towns. A guy working next door to me has one and he gets 30 miles on the battery and the nest 170 is on diesel.
If you don’t want an electric car, then don’t get one, but don’t complain about other peoples’ choices.
Everyone is expressing personal opinions. This is fine. I expressed the view that an electric car is just about completely useless unless you can park it where you can run a cable from your house. EuroGA frequently illustrates different political regimes and taxation policies, acceptance of tax funded social policies, within Europe, and such differences between Europe and the US. I have driven ~4000 miles in the US and it is quite unlike driving in Europe.
We charge our cars on our own solar power
I know a pilot – a former pilot, like so many – who uses a wind turbine and solar. For him it works well. Like a lot of things it works for short drives. An electric car would work for me too, if I never did the longer drives which make up perhaps 2-3% of my mileage.
A rarely publicised factor is that the range is impacted a lot by heating and aircon, but again this is generally accepted for short journeys, which is exactly where electric cars make by far the most sense, plus it is the only scenario which is feasible in terms of power generation capacity.
Silvaire wrote:
I am bemused by the rather naive and blinkered view of the world outside their own, and the view by some that if others were ‘enlightened’ they’d choose to conform to a very constrained, government promoted, taxpayer funded choice that I’m helping to fund.
In this context your statement seems a bit like the pot calling the kettle black. The US government subsidizes ICE-based personal transport to a degree not found in any other western country. And I’m not saying anyone should buy an EV, only that the traditional arguments against buying one are largely baseless with modern vehicles and infrastructure. I don’t care what people drive, but I do try to help people by debunking common misconceptions. I also find it difficult to accept rebuttals from people who haven’t actually done something when I have loads of experience doing said thing.
I have driven electric vehicles (Tesla Model S) for Euro-style urban driving (100 miles out, 100 miles back) and while I’d rather be in real car, as a toy for that kind of limited use they work OK.
This is the real crux of the issue. You don’t want an EV for whatever reason. All the talk of range or 5-min breaks is really beside the point. If you wanted an EV those things would not be a problem anymore.
Peter wrote:
I expressed the view that an electric car is just about completely useless unless you can park it where you can run a cable from your house.
My Model 3 has never been connected to anything other than public charging infrastructure.
Peter wrote:
A rarely publicised factor is that the range is impacted a lot by heating and aircon, but again this is generally accepted for short journeys, which is exactly where electric cars make by far the most sense
I think it’s quite publicized, and my example above of driving to Austria in winter with the added drag of a roof box was an illustration of just how far we have come in solving these issues.
‘Constrained’ as in ‘worried about the environment’?
