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Is it just UK EASA CPL holders that are just clueless

We are in unusual times and there are slot of pilots looking for work. Some have just recently qualified and have no post CPL experience. Some have just finished UPRT course and some have some limited airline experience. However one thing they do hold is a current SEP rating.

They are clueless.

Not one and even heard of straight oil. No idea what D or W ment on the bottle. Not one had a clue which oil types you could put in an O-360 and when or why.

What does the ATPL TK teach them?

Bathman wrote:

What does the ATPL TK teach them?

Stuff about the FMS in a B737, isn’t it?

More seriously, when I was training for my PPL the lack of basic mechanical knowledge became apparent to me. I didn’t formally do ‘ground school’ for the exams but had a number of pre-flight briefings which covered things like engines. It was apparent to me that the instructor(s) ‘knew’ how an internal combustion engine worked in the sense that someone might after reading the Ladybird book of engines, i.e. they’d read the book and retained some basic key facts (as required for the exams) but they didn’t really understand engines and certainly couldn’t discuss them in detail, or repair a lawnmower engine, or identify a valve spring if I put one in their hand, or whatever else.

The flying training was excellent though. I didn’t want to come across as difficult so I just listened and nodded rather than saying “I know how engines work, you can skip this bit”.

Last Edited by Graham at 31 Jul 16:06
EGLM & EGTN

I don’t know anything about aero engine oils either, nor can I discuss engines in detail. It is certainly debatable whether that knowledge is required or even helpful for flying a SEP…as long as you can read what the manual says about oils and use them accordingly.

Then again I’m just a low hours PPL, the knowledge expected from a CPL should indeed be more in-depth.

Last Edited by MedEwok at 31 Jul 16:12
Novice pilot
EDVM Hildesheim, Germany

I have a friend who flew Jaguars in a combat situation and several who flew Alphajets and Mirages and another who flies the Eurofighter. Some are even high level aerobatic pilots. None of them would say they know a lot about the engines in their SEP’s. They are used to getting out of the plane and telling an engineer that something is wrong and leaving them to it.

France

But do CPLs (who are not interested at all in private flying, less so in ownership) really need that knowledge? Those of us who fly privately complain(ed) about the old IR syllabus which contained 90% stuff irrelevant to private flying – quite rightly. For someone who’s just going to end up in a jet, and will never be allowed to touch the engines on it, what do they care about kinds of oil other than there’s enough but not too much in it? They aren’t the ones ordering a box of the stuff from LAS after all.

For an owner of a SEP/MEP, yes, it’s important knowledge. But someone with no ambition except to fly a jet owned and maintained by someone else?

Andreas IOM

Its incumbent on individuals to learn what they need to know to do their job. Being a pilot is not a factory production job, its a job in the real world and the pilot could end up flying anything with wings – as the original post demonstrates. The point to be made to young pilots is that the world has a lot more facets and complexities than they likely understand and they should learn everything they can. Any failure to instill that attitude in flight training is a failure of the instructor.

The commercial pilot who taught me to fly not long before had the carb fall off the Continental 220 he was using to give a paid ride. Despite being about 28 at the time he was able to return to base using the accelerator pump to squirt fuel into the intake manifold. The passenger thought it was exciting, not more. Knowledge is good, he’s also an A&P IA.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 31 Jul 18:20

Albeit for cars, this is a nice app to learn about engines and accessories (the older stuff we have in piston planes).

https://apps.apple.com/at/app/how-a-car-works/id961583774

EASA CB IR Training
Europe/Austria

Graham wrote:

It was apparent to me that the instructor(s) ‘knew’ how an internal combustion engine worked in the sense that someone might after reading the Ladybird book of engines, i.e. they’d read the book and retained some basic key facts (as required for the exams) but they didn’t really understand engines and certainly couldn’t discuss them in detail, or repair a lawnmower engine, or identify a valve spring if I put one in their hand, or whatever else.

The instructors could hardly repair an altimeter or gyro instrument either. Would you expect them to? When it comes to equipment that you’re not supposed to work on yourself, it is enough to know how it works in principle.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

I recently crossed paths with a FAA CPL/IR qualified chap who didn’t know what de-ice boots were when he saw them.
I was a little surprised.

Private strip, Essex (not mine), United Kingdom

Bathman wrote:

Not one and even heard of straight oil. No idea what D or W ment on the bottle. Not one had a clue which oil types you could put in an O-360 and when or why.

My plane came with a note inside the oil flap stating which oil to put in summer and winter. Mostly we use multi grade oil 20W50 and to make sure the same oil gets used to replenish, we do leave two bottles in the baggage compartment after each oil change. So any pilot refilling will help himself to those and replace them if they are empty with the same grade oil. We use multi grade normally. We also add camguard. This seems to tie up with the Lycoming recommendations quoted elsewhere.

A CPL as well as any license is a license to learn. It won’t cover a great variety of engines or maintenance procedures but it is up to a pilot who flies or even more so if he owns a plane to find out what kind of oil etc is needed for what conditions. I would not expect that to be part of basic training but rather come with experience.

Last Edited by Mooney_Driver at 31 Jul 21:52
LSZH, Switzerland
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