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France "Citizen's Climate Convention"

dublinpilot wrote:

I get a schedule of connections (a journey of any length involves 2 or 3 train changes).

Fully agree but we also need to keep honest in terms of apples to apples comparison:
- Without having checked in detail, I would assume that for every city pair in Germany where a flight would be an alternative you don’t have to change trains more than once.
- 2 Minutes connection time has been bad planning by the travel agent. Doesn’t actually feel better when you are stuck at CDG as a non French speaker having missed the connecting flight…
- You can plan train connections with at least 90 Mins. as well – it’s just that no-one does. And it’s simply not true that any flight connections have at least 90 Mins. More than 90 Mins. is rather the exception for business travelers…

Germany

dublinpilot wrote:

Ah but switching between trains and airplane is only part of it
Having been on German trains a few times, as a non-german speaker it’s quite frustrating. I get a schedule of connections (a journey of any length involves 2 or 3 train changes). Then the train is late by 2 minutes and I’ve missed the connection and I’ve got to figure out a different connection. It’s easier now of course with apps, but not near as pleasant as sitting on an aircraft and know that I’ll arrive at my destination. Any connections with aircraft have at least 90 minutes between them.

And then there’s lugging your bags about. OK with just a laptop bag or overnighter rolly, but if you have 2x sportsbags or suitcases, you pitch up at the airport, take them out of the taxi/car and onto a trolly to checkin then dont see them until you get to the airport at the other end regardless of plane changes in between. On a Train, you have to lug this stuff about yourself, and believe me train platforms are VERY long. And as for switching from one train station to another in London/Paris or whatever… COMPLETE NIGHTMARE..!!

These “Citizen’s Climate Conventions” (CCCs)need to be resisted as strongly as possible. All of us in the west already have perfectly good CCCs, in the form of our national parliaments. Our elected representatives are in a much better position to weigh up and deliberate all the factors in policy making, from the environmental to the economic, and they are also answerable to the electorate. On the other hand CCCs are convened by leftist green groups as they know they can likely stack the membership in their favour and the members aren’t elected by, or answerable to, anyone.

Having said all that, even our elected parliaments in Europe are doing a terrible job on environmental matters. The idea, for example, that the UK is going to be carbon neutral in 2050 or 2030 is an outright farce. Unless, they suddenly decide to promote research and investment in new nuclear technologies.

Upper Harford private strip UK, near EGBJ, United Kingdom

These “Citizen’s Climate Conventions” (CCCs)need to be resisted as strongly as possible

I agree; the idea is a champagne socialists’ dream.

COMPLETE NIGHTMARE..!!

Indeed; trains are a nightmare if you have luggage. Try going skiing to say Wengen. 4 trains, IIRC, each way. Took all day, and an absolute bastard to work out the timetables. Would have been much harder if travelling alone. Again, fine for the champagne socialist who is not using a train anyway.

What we need is nuclear fusion. Ironically, France is the one place where nuclear is popular.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I also think there is real merit in SMNRs – Small Modular Nuclear Reactors. If produced in scale this approach should tackle the capital cost problem of huge centralised nuclear reactors.

Upper Harford private strip UK, near EGBJ, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

What we need is nuclear fusion. Ironically, France is the one place where nuclear is popular.

Not so popular any longer, they’ve just stopped one of the Nuclear Power Plant, because France needs to be more ecologist, go figure…

As to taking train, when you have a decent size suitcase, in most case, any connection quickly becomes a nightmare, going up and down the stairs (in most cases, only option to go from one platform to another)… I’ve missed a couple of connection this way, getting up the stairs struggling with my luggage only to find out that it was the next platform and when finally reaching it, the train has left…

ENVA, Norway

Not so popular any longer, they’ve just stopped one of the Nuclear Power Plant, because France needs to be more ecologist, go figure…

The somewhat “inside” story on that is that most of the output was going to Germany, who have just build some coal plants nearby and won’t need it. Macron tried to paint it as an ecologist move and is getting crushed on both sides. As several people have pointed out, the whole Gilets Jaunes thing started against a proposed eco tax. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

EGTF, LFTF

Within the UK, with one booking, my baggage is checked in at Aberdeen or Inverness. I can relax. All missed connections will be taken care of by the airline consortium. I do have to collect my baggage at the first US stop, but that’s all. If the aircraft goes tech, I don’t worry.
If I travel by train to make the connection, I have to watch my luggage for theft, cart it across platforms, and my ticket is invalid if I miss my longhaul flight.

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom

boscomantico wrote:

Especially all those useless flights from Paris (Orly, mostly) to all those (small) capitals of the various départements, using Beech 1900 and such, were just crazy anachronisms.

Have you tried taking a train from, say, Quimper to Bordeaux? Or even driving it? What about Bairritz to Strasbourg? Or even Rennes to Bordeaux, which is an easier drive. How about Nantes to Marsilles?

There’s a reason that Chalair fly these routes at the times they do. Just saying.

Regards, SD..

Peter wrote:

Try going skiing to say Wengen. 4 trains, IIRC

That’s right – but it’s also right that 2 of them you have to take as well if you go by plane because Wengen has no international airport and the nearest international airport is 2 trains away.

Maoraigh wrote:

I have to watch my luggage for theft, cart it across platforms, and my ticket is invalid if I miss my longhaul flight.

Don’t know about the British rail system, but in Germany you can buy tickets that are perfectly fine for any train in the right direction (try this when flying). It’s just that most people don’t do because you can save some bucks. Saving money (and then complaining about reduced service) is a good point: Many of us can still remember times where in longhaul rail your luggage has been taken care of as in planes. The truth was: That service was shut down because literally no-one was using it any longer. People rather saved some money. Plus one of the great advantages of rail travel, that you can literally show up at the station 3 Mins before departure gets lost when you have to check in your luggage an hour in advance – and that you can walk away from the train straight ahead and do not need to wait 30 min for your luggage.

I’m not arguing against aviation at all – but a more fact based approach to alternatives would help us imho to preserve the parts of aviation, where really no alternatives exist.

Germany
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