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France "Citizen's Climate Convention"

Mooney_Driver wrote:

In Germany for a while they were pretty evenly split along a line of “fundamentalists” and “realists”,

Just as with any political debate these words need to be said into context as they are not easy to understand internationally.

If we define “fundamentalist” in the general meaning of the word, that these people think that their believe/values/etc. to be dominating in an absolute way so that even fundamental principles like democracy, human rights, etc. have to stand back behind them, the Green in Germany never really had a fundamentalist wing.
We have seen some of such fundamentalism lately in Friday for future (with the German activist Neugebauer stating publicly that she wants to suppress democracy if the majority does not do what she wants) but in the Green Party not so much.

The difference between the “Fundamentalists” and the “Realists” in the German Green Party have always (only) been, that the “Fundis” only wanted to accept government responsibility if they were strongest party and therefore could implement their programme in full while the “Realos” were open to coalitions where they would compromise on parts of the programme to realize other parts.

Germany

Malibuflyer wrote:

If we define “fundamentalist” in the general meaning of the word, that these people think that their believe/values/etc. to be dominating in an absolute way so that even fundamental principles like democracy, human rights, etc. have to stand back behind them, the Green in Germany never really had a fundamentalist wing.

Yes, good analysis. Looking at some of the program for the next election, I wonder however how much of that is borderline towards fundamentalism, but as with any election program, usually before the election is more extreme than after when realism sets in.

Malibuflyer wrote:

We have seen some of such fundamentalism lately in Friday for future (with the German activist Neugebauer stating publicly that she wants to suppress democracy if the majority does not do what she wants) but in the Green Party not so much.

Right.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

I wonder if this will worsen this situation?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I wonder if this will worsen this situation?

I doubt it. These are all places where the train is faster door-to-door than flying anyway, unless you happen to have friends who live near Orly.

LFMD, France

As it stands now, this only affect commercial flights between the 4 airports (Orly, CDG, Bordeaux, Nantes all these are COHOR), the law did not affect regional airports: it state that you can’t make flights less than 2h30 if there are SNCF train alternatives, AF manage to make that law about “train stations in airport” (Orly, CDG) or “near airport” (Nantes, Bordeaux)

There is an irony to this fight between airline operator (AF) and train operator (SNCF), for 60 years SNCF refused to put train stations into airports to cut competition on AF, as such all French airports don’t have any train connections to start with: the train that goes to many places like Lille, Strasburg, Brest, Deauville, Cherbourg…will drive past airport at 300kmh without stopping, the only exceptions were Orly/CDG and Nantes/Bordeaux…

Last Edited by Ibra at 23 May 16:56
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Posts moved to existing thread (could not find it before).

the law did not affect regional airports

That’s a nice watering-down – as expected

for 60 years SNCF refused to put train stations into airports

Is that why LFAT lost its train connection? It obviously happened many decades ago.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Is that why LFAT lost its train connection? It obviously happened many decades ago.

Maybe something to do with it?

However, the Eurostar from Paris, Lille, Brussels did make flying to places like London less convenient and less economical

Last Edited by Ibra at 23 May 17:11
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

I cant speak for Nantes, but I wouldn’t say that the train station in Bordeaux is anywhere near the Airport… but hey…

The problem with all these things is that not every situation is the same… if you live in the middle of Bordeaux and want to get to the middle of Paris, it may well be very quick and efficient to use the train – especially with little or no baggage. If you live in Andernos and want to go to Senlis, then you certainly wouldn’t want to take a train…especially with a couple of suitcases…

I find it shows a severe deficiency in our math programs around the world that these climate activists are focusing on air travel at all.

Fly more.
LSGY, Switzerland

If you live in Andernos and want to go to Senlis, then you certainly wouldn’t want to take a train…especially with a couple of suitcases…

But you still have to get to/from the airport in that case. And airports (big ones anyway) involve just as much hiking around as trains, if not more. When I go to CDG I walk about 1km, from the gate via the curiously laid out baggage area to the RER. Orly isn’t much better. And LHR is even worse.

When I’m on the Atlantic coast and have to go to Paris, I can fly BIQ-ORY or I can take the train from Dax to Montparnasse. The time to BIQ or Dax by car is the same. The train takes 3h30, the flight about 1h20. But the train is quicker, because I don’t have to get to the station 90 minutes before the train, and I don’t have to hike into Paris from ORY/CDG afterwards. It’s also far more pleasant – no standing around in lines for security/boarding/etc. For that 3h30 I can snooze/read/work/whatever in complete peace and comfort.

And anyway the number of people going from Andernos to Senlis is WAY less than the people NOT going from Andernos to Senlis. When I lived in the US I would have loved a direct San Jose – Biarritz but somehow nobody found it profitable to run one.

LFMD, France
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