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Corona / Covid-19 Virus - General Discussion

How do they know your email address? Or is it done by letter? Does it work from your tax database? Or your health records?

This was SMS. The local GP has this on their system.

I was out on my bike so forwarded it to Justine who booked it immediately

Is everyone registered with the NHS?

That’s a complicated answer. By the time you get “old enough” you will have had interaction with a GP and probably some in hospital(s). The hospital records tend to be held at the hospital and not leave there, especially as they are in an A4 folder. I am sure you could have multiple A&E treatments and never end up with a GP record, but it is unlikely unless you are young and merely get “sports injuries”

I am sure contacting some people is not going to happen, especially in communities with a large “underground” element (people who arrived in the UK and have been kept “locked up underground” as domestic slaves; I think they are mostly women, and anyway these communities have by far the highest vaccine refusal rate) but in general people tend to be well known to a GP by the time they get to say 50.

This has just come out, so maybe we should be ok for a Sep 2021 fly-in to Sicily, and Aero EDNY in July looks doable

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Malibuflyer wrote:

it should be in the discretion of the individual shop-owner

That’s what I intended. They can quite easily make a rule that no-one comes in their shop unless they wear a face mask. This doesn’t require law or the intervention of government.

Malibuflyer wrote:

It is also a question for the social systems regulation if we a society want to pay cost of treatment for people that took the “own decision” to not get vaccinated or not wear masks and therefore get infected or infect others.

Covid-19 scores nowhere on this scale. We pay the treatment costs of people who smash themselves up playing rugby or falling off motorcycles, we pay the treatment costs of smoking-related diseases, we pay for PrEP for people who don’t want to practice safe sex, etc.

Malibuflyer wrote:

If the fine for visiting a football match without vaccination is high enough, it should prevent most people from doing so – even more so as vaccination is a longer term thing so that in contrast to DUI even a week later someone could tell you have been in the stadium and it can be checked if you had been vaccinated before. Adding significantly to the risk of being caught.

Not a chance here in the UK. We just aren’t that sort of society, thankfully. If there were anything conditional on being vaccinated, it would be a status check at the time. The idea that it could simply be illegal to do XYZ without having had a vaccine, and people could report your activities and check your vaccine status, well….. that’s rather chilling. I appreciate that in plenty of countries around the world there is less opposition to this sort of police-state type thing.

The main problem is the time taken to vaccinate everyone who wants one. I doubt free societies are going to accept a situation where for many months certain people (the older ones) can do and go wherever they want but the younger ones are much more restricted. Certainly in the UK that will never fly. In the EU it will be even worse – being age 39 I will probably have to wait until maybe June for my first jab, but if I were in an EU country it would quite possibly not even be this year. My guess is that once this becomes clear governments will abandon the idea.

EGLM & EGTN

So, to be practical about it, what happens if say Greece demands a proof of vaccination?

IMHO Greece should demand this, plus a 72hr CV19 test – they are highly vulnerable to N European infection, for a number of reasons.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Graham wrote:

Covid-19 scores nowhere on this scale. We pay the treatment costs of people who smash themselves up playing rugby or falling off motorcycles, we pay the treatment costs of smoking-related diseases, we pay for PrEP for people who don’t want to practice safe sex, etc.

While this obviously is country dependent, in general it is not true.

Cost of a broken leg from rugby would be about 4000 EUR (all in) and therefore pay you less than 4 days in ICU with Covid (if not on ECMO; ECMO roughly cost you 4k per day with some “long term discounts”. a week of ECMO sets you back about 23k)

Polytrauma from Motorcycle accidents can be extremely costly of course, but such expensive cases are far less frequent than ICU Covid cases. There is a reason why we see much more Covid patients in hospitals these days than motorcycle accidents although there are no restrictions.

And smoking has a very complex effect on total cost to society as many countries tax tobacco significantly.

Germany

Malibuflyer wrote:

While this obviously is country dependent, in general it is not true.

Cost of a broken leg from rugby would be about 4000 EUR (all in) and therefore pay you less than 4 days in ICU with Covid (if not on ECMO; ECMO roughly cost you 4k per day with some “long term discounts”. a week of ECMO sets you back about 23k)

Polytrauma from Motorcycle accidents can be extremely costly of course, but such expensive cases are far less frequent than ICU Covid cases. There is a reason why we see much more Covid patients in hospitals these days than motorcycle accidents although there are no restrictions.

And smoking has a very complex effect on total cost to society as many countries tax tobacco significantly.

The statement I made is true, but my point is not about the size of the cost. My point is that all those activities/injuries/diseases/costs are completely avoidable if people just made different choices, but we still pay for them.

I’m going to respectfully bow out of this part of the discussion (compulsory vaccination) now. I don’t think we’re likely to agree on this aspect of the debate and I find the idea of imposing (effectively) compulsory medical interventions on the population completely abhorrent.

EGLM & EGTN

Graham wrote:

I’m going to respectfully bow out of this part of the discussion (compulsory vaccination) now. I don’t think we’re likely to agree on this aspect of the debate and I find the idea of imposing (effectively) compulsory medical interventions on the population completely abhorrent.

In Germany the government announced very early on that there will be no compulsory vaccinations (which we do have for measles, at least for people working in healthcare, childcare or education) for SARS-CoV2.

However, it also became quite clear that it would be unconstitutional for the government to prevent private companies from only dealing with vaccinated clients if they want to. Our laws (BGB) place a very high value on freedom of choice on how to do business. Companies can discriminate people on a lot of factors as long as the people in question can do something about it (what is not allowed would be discrimination based on gender, race, religion etc.). The government is in denial on this, but most legal experts agree that de facto preferential treatment for vaccinated people is well within the rights of private companies.

Novice pilot
EDVM Hildesheim, Germany

I believe there are people (eg with allergies?) who are unable to have the Covid vaccines despite wanting to. Should we allow discrimination against them, ban them from shops, holidays, etc?

Booker EGTB, White Waltham EGLM

Any certificate scheme, whether pushed by govts of residence or by govts of destination, needs to allow for (a) kids not having it and (b) people who can’t have it for medical reasons.

In reality both these groups would end up with a certificate: one saying they are not required to have it.

Then the destination country can decide whether to accept them.

If it was done as a QR code, and referencing a database, all this could be done. In time for summer 2021? I doubt it.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

In reality, and such scheme won’t last long. By the end of summer enough people will be vaccinated that covid won’t be an issue anymore. Herd immunity will be kicking in.

And in any case, there is no scheme of immunity passports agreed yet. So some people will be going with a nice looking plastic card, others will a letter from their hospital, others with a note from a GP, some in English, some in Germany and some in Greek. How is an officer on the Greek border able to tell which is genuine and which is fake, or even be able to read all the different languages.

It’s taken a year to plan the vaccine rollout, and they didn’t have time to agree and organise a nice common standard for vaccine passports. So it’s not going to happen in the next 4 months. And after that, it won’t really be needed anymore as herd immunity kicks in.

Maybe in a year’s time there will be some nice standard agreed for people entering from outside the EU, but not for intra EU travel.

EIKH Kilrush

dublinpilot wrote:

It’s taken a year to plan the vaccine rollout, and they didn’t have time to agree and organise a nice common standard for vaccine passports.

Excuse me but that is imho wrong. There is an official internationally reckognized vaccination document which lots of people already carry. All that is necessary is to register the vaccination in there. Who doesn’t have one can get one from their GP. If I remember right it is ever free.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Certificate_of_Vaccination_or_Prophylaxis

LSZH, Switzerland
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