My life is not a joint venture with government, and in general I think the purpose of government to use tax funding to provide services to the population in areas specifically enumerated, with the services included being limited that those that are impractical for people or commercial organizations to create themselves.
The proper purpose of government is not to create laws to guide the details of our daily behavior according to some government created model, designed to create a preplanned outcome and control individual risk. That is communism.
That said, one could also argue that the right to tax is in essence a license to remove individual rights, and obviously what is allowed under intentional constitutional limits on government scope and power is subject to debate.
Silvaire wrote:
All symptoms of self impressed, overgrown, overly empowered governments stretching their muscles within their little geographic areas… and not much else.
That’s not a comment that I recognise when I look around me. Rather our government appears to have reduced all their responsibility to simply following the advice of the public health medics. On the one or two occasions that they decided to ignore that advice because it wasn’t popular, things went very badly in terms of infection number and ICU (Intensive Care Unit-very sick people) number. So they became terrified of being held to account for not following that advice.
Almost all restrictions are now rolled back here, and by next month everything will be gone except masks for certain places (eg public transport) and covid digital certificate for international travel.
Over 88% of our adult population are fully vaccinated and a further 4% have received their first dose.
I can’t find a reference for the number but I heard on the radio that almost 50% of our 12-17 year olds have already had their first dose of vaccine.
Malibuflyer wrote:
If we would claim that government must not at all interfere with individual freedom, there is nothing left for the government to do
Libertarians would disagree with you. In their minds the only purpose of government is minimal law enforcement and possibly national defence. (The night-watchman state.)
Silvaire wrote:
The proper purpose of government is not to create laws to guide the details of our daily behavior according to some government created model, designed to create a preplanned outcome and control individual risk.
While I agree with you here…
That is communism..
..that is nonsense. Communism is something else entirely – both in Marx’ original conception and even in the perverted form of Leninism.
I meant communism in the Eastern European sense, the former DDR being a great example of the real world application of communism in Europe.
Marxism as an idealistic concept is equally ill conceived but different, and currently I see that philosophy rearing it’s ugly head in governments and naive followers a lot closer to home 
Malibuflyer wrote:
But what about that? Vaccine passports are standard practice both in Europe as well as many other countries worldwide. You can not enter certain countries and/or from certain countries if you do not have a vaccination passport for yellow fever. Nobody complains. Yes, that is a restriction of freedom.
This is not a reasonable comparison. A country is more than able to set the requirements it wants to have to allow others to enter. (much as one needs a passport to enter other countries). I don’t believe this is at all what Silvaire is getting at. Equally so North Korea wont let you travel anywhere without a minder / guide. This doesn’t mean that people should not be allowed to leave their houses without a government chaperone.
Once you are within a (somewhat) free country. one should not have to show papers to move around or have vaccine certificates to be able to go about normal life.
Airborne_Again wrote:
Libertarians would disagree with you. In their minds the only purpose of government is minimal law enforcement and possibly national defence
Law enforcement is not required/possible if the state must not interfere with individual freedoms. The whole purpose of laws is to restrict individual freedoms.
Military could be the only exception if one believes in the concept of a national state, as the role of military is to restrict individual freedom of people living outside the own state.
The problem with military from a strictly libertarian sense is that military requires funding. And yes, one could imagine a libertarian state that organizes donations to fund the military (in a crowdfunding sense) and uses only these donations. Would be an interesting question if one could generate sufficient and stable funding in such a model.
Taxes are a very deep and fundamental restriction of my personal freedom as I am the only one who should have a say how I spent my money!
Silvaire wrote:
I find the vaccine passport concept completely abhorrent.
You prob90 already have one in the form of the little yellow book that records your childhood vaccinations. Get over it.
In any case, the realities are already emerging hard and fast – no jab, no job. Certainly the case in my field which works with loads of freelancers. If you want to endanger yourself (fine) and others (not so fine), great, have at it – but you won’t do it on my crew.
Off_Field wrote:
This doesn’t mean that people should not be allowed to leave their houses without a government chaperone.
Okay, than let’s use another example: In most countries you need some kind of proof of age to visit bars, clubs, brothels, etc. (depending on the country and the type of location either always or only at specific (night)times).
What is the fundamental difference to a proof of your vaccination if you want to visit these very same establishments? Even if you go down the line that underaged people do not deserve full human rights, it basically al people who need these IDs…
172driver wrote:
no jab, no job.
Agree – that is becoming reality – just ask Cam Newton on his experience ;-)
172driver wrote:
You prob90 already have one in the form of the little yellow book that records your childhood vaccinations. Get over it.
No, I don’t actually. If I ever had one it’s long since thrown away.
I have nothing to “get over” but I do wish to express my condolences in relation to you living in Smell A, and all that it signifies 
Maybe you’ll get a new Governor soon, if you’re lucky and the recall vote goes in the right direction.
My employer complied with local law and asked that we document our vaccination status on an HR website. Nobody I’ve spoken with did it, regardless of whether they are vaccinated. HR reminded us, no change. End of story.
Malibuflyer wrote:
In most countries you need some kind of proof of age to visit bars, clubs, brothels, etc. (depending on the country and the type of location either always or only at specific (night)times). What is the fundamental difference to a proof of your vaccination if you want to visit these very same establishments?
The difference is that I’m not a child, nor do I want or need to be protected like a child.
