Yes, and it is fairly obvious that, in the UK at least, the figure is closer to 10% or maybe even 5% – when you look at the hospital numbers, and the lack of restrictions. We “should” be running at 2k-3k deaths per day, otherwise.
It will of course be different in a country with a much lower population density, etc. In such a country (Norway?) the vaccine does much less anyway. I also don’t buy the “news from Israel is xxxxx” because the population there has a large fraction which engages in “interesting practices” – same as some communities in London.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
If this trend continues, then it is back to lockdowns until everyone has a third vaccination. And then every 6 months thereafter.
No free population is going to tolerate rolling lockdowns as the way of the world for the foreseeable future. They will vote out the governments that implement them – at least that is what would happen here. Other countries are perhaps more embracing of tyranny, but hopefully not to the degree necessary to let this happen.
I would genuinely rather live in a free world where infectious disease was a risk we all took and, even after we’ve done our best with vaccination, mortality from it is still at a noteworthy level. Infinitely preferable to a world where your right to work, travel, socialise etc. is routinely withdrawn by a government with no long-term plan other than to try and keep a lid on next weeks numbers.
Only 50-70 years ago infectious diseases were a real risk and people died of them. We have become used to world where this is no longer the case, and will perhaps over time need to re-adjust our perspective and get used to the idea that that’s how things are again.
We all know how to reduce our own individual risk, much as some may want to deny it and prefer to demand that the government close down society to protect them.
No free population is going to tolerate rolling lockdowns as the way of the world for the foreseeable future
One has to wonder some times. The situation in Norway now is a peak in positive tests that is equal to the highest peak during the entire pandemic.
Media interviews people in the street about this, and they all say masks, distance etc should be compulsory by law. The government says it has no plans to do anything. It’s all up to the local government. The local government say it’s up to each individual to take precautions. They have no plans to do anything special.
In fact, the only thing that has been done, and this is on a national level, is that school children won’t get remarks for not coming to school when being infected.
What is this all about? The media trying to create some false picture of the situation? Or is the average population pro stricter regulation? IMO it’s the media. Every single person I speak with has since long been finished with the whole Corona situation. Nobody cares anymore. Why this behaviour from the media? The only thing that happens is they make themselves irrelevant.
As predicted, Croatia breaks record every day – 7000 infected today. It started with 4500 every day on course of 10 days then few days 6000 and today 7000, expecting even more in following days. Death toll is also impressive.
Malibuflyer wrote:
That is exactly the reason why it is so important to raise vaccination levels: It is not only about personal protection but also about reducing the risk for those who try to protect themselves but can’t because the vaccination is not effective with them.
That is clear.
Malibuflyer wrote:
In addition it is hard for most people to intuitively grasp how such numbers as “% of vaccinated in ICU” should develop if vaccination is effective.
The figure that got me confused was more like “of the current Covid 19 ICU patients, 60% are not vaccinated” or something like that. This would suggest that the current ICU occupancy has 40% people who are double vaxxed. That is not at all what we are seeing here according to our health ministry, who claims about 90% or more of ICU patients with covid are not vaccinated.
Airborne_Again wrote:
Does that mean that vaccines are ineffective? Certainly not!
Ok, yes. But still a half/half ICU population is something which does not look anywhere close to what I came to expect. Apart, 90% vaccination does not exist anywhere really.
Cobalt wrote:
I would say all of this does not matter – at a society level, it is obvious that vaccination is “effective” as it protects the health system from collapse and prevents an unacceptably high level of excess mortality
That much is clear. The problem is that this society has a significant part which tries to sabotage this by refusing vaccinations.
LeSving wrote:
Or is the average population pro stricter regulation?
There is some aspect of this. Some people do indeed prefer a tightly-controlled environment where many/most things are prohibited and only certain things are allowed under strict conditions. Presumably it gives them a sense of certainty and control, and they struggle with the uncertainty of a free world. The psychological aspects of it are probably not unlike the ‘security blanket’ of religion.
Towards the end of the first lockdown one of the UK newspapers ran a fairly large opinion poll on the subject. I forget the exact numbers, but it was frightening how many embraced close government control of personal behaviour as a good thing. Some terrifying proportion of the population (maybe 20-25%) actually agreed with some statement along the lines of, even without a pandemic, being away from your home after dark without a ‘good reason’ should be illegal.
Graham wrote:
No free population is going to tolerate rolling lockdowns as the way of the world for the foreseeable future.
All polls I have seen has approximately 60/40 spread where people are pro measures vs against and a significant number which say the measures are not hard enough.
Those who have done their share and are vaccinated, have exercised personal responsibility (masks, distancing, e.t.c.) feel tyrannized by those who blandly and flatly refuse to comply! So the call for harsher measures will get louder, not be silenced. Me, personally, I’d throw out a government which refuses to lead. We don’t need anyone who is just hanging in there trying to piss off the least amout of people, that is not leadership.
Graham wrote:
. Infinitely preferable to a world where your right to work, travel, socialise etc. is routinely withdrawn by a government with no long-term plan other than to try and keep a lid on next weeks numbers.
The governments hands are forced by those who refuse to take their duty as a citizen seriously and protect themselves. These people act in the same kind of manner like e.g. insurrection groups which provoke a government into action and then accuse them of tyranny. Not the governments who are trying to do their job of civil protection is to blame for this, the real tyrants are those who willfully and purposefully prolong the situation.
LeSving wrote:
Every single person I speak with has since long been finished with the whole Corona situation. Nobody cares anymore.
That is exactly the danger. NO, it is NOT over and it won’t be until we get a 90-100% vaccination quota world wide. Which means most likely never. If people think it’s gone, it will be back, more vicious and more devastating than before.
That is exactly the danger. NO, it is NOT over and it won’t be until we get a 90-100% vaccination quota world wide.
There are plenty other alternatives. Pfizer’s drug cuts Covid related hospitalisations by 90% if administered at symptom onset.
Not saying the vaccine isn’t a good thing though.
Emir wrote:
As predicted, Croatia breaks record every day – 7000 infected today. It started with 4500 every day on course of 10 days then few days 6000 and today 7000, expecting even more in following days. Death toll is also impressive.
It will be interesting to see if that results in a significant increased number of people choosing to get vaccinated. I imagine that would make a lot of people who are ‘hesitant’, make the decision to go get vaccinated. I imagine it would, but these things can be hard to predict!
Graham wrote:
Some terrifying proportion of the population (maybe 20-25%) actually agreed with some statement along the lines of, even without a pandemic, being away from your home after dark without a ‘good reason’ should be illegal.
I’ve seen in other studies that about this proportion of people has a fundamentally authoritarian worldview.
