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Corona / Covid-19 Virus - General Discussion (politics go to the Off Topic / Politics thread)

Peter wrote:

However I can’t work out how this relates to this

Sorry, don’t have time to read the paper – but initial hypothesis would be that different things are measured / units of measures are used ( BAU/mL vs. AU/mL) .

Germany

Well. We have lost another close person to Covid here in BG. A cousin of my wife died at 29 years of age after catching the virus when he brought his grandmother to hospital… he died after 3 days in hospital himself, 2 of which on ventilator. The family in which there have been severe cases previous now mourn the loss of a son, nephew and cousin. (He was one of the few who could not be vaccinated out of medical reasons, due to other medications he needed. However he had no covid relevant pre-conditions, nor was he obese.)

Here in Bulgaria, case numbers are exploding, and that is only half the story, as people will not test unless they end up in hospital. There is no certificate regime (people can go anywhere without it), only a mask obligation in enclosed places. Vaccination rates are low due to many people being scared by anti vaxxer propaganda and by a state, which has failed to form a government after 2 elections, running into a 3rd.

The little town where we have to go for shopping nearby (Tsarevo) is totally deserted. Not because the government sais they have to stay home, because it is totally infested with Covid and nobody wants to be out and about. It has become a ghost town, people wave to each other from afar. Nobody we talked to is vaccinated, everyone we talked to is talking about all the conspiracy theories ranging from Bill Gates to Putin, all deemed more dangerous than the virus which claims countless lifes. One of my close friends here got the vaccination on my insistence in Spring and he was the only one of a family of 10 (3 generations)not getting ill. Even though almost all families here have had seriously ill or dead in their ranks, the fear of the fake conspiracy theories is still bigger than of the killer Covid itself. It is horrendous what propaganda does and horrendous wha happened here after the government who initially did a good job got ousted by a coaliton of anti measure folks.

We have pretty much isolated during our stay and are quite self-critical about actually going, despite the fact that all of us but for my 5 year old are vaccinated. If nothing happens we will be back in Switzerland on Sunday. This situation has developed in the last 7/8 days roughly, so when we got here, it was still much less dramatic. Last claim by the government sais about 30% are vaccinated, others say 15%…

I am extremely concerned about what this winter will bring to BG, where the 5th wave now ravages the population. From what we hear, a catastrophe exeeding any expectations is possible. I would strongly recommend to stay away from BG if at all possible at this stage.

Last Edited by Mooney_Driver at 21 Oct 20:29
LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

It sounds hard, but if non vaccinated people get Covid and die it is their choice. People have the right to chose death over life.

There is only a problem if the ones who chose death before actually dieing infect vaccinated people or those who did not have the choice because of medical reasons.

Germany

This guy was one of the few who medically could not get the vaccine. So it was not his choice. Otherwise I am in full agreement with you.

It is a total disgrace how the people of the Balkans have chosen to largely rely on fake information and conspiracy theories rather than getting vaccinated even after almost all.of them have had loved ones either critically ill or dying. It shows the power of this kind of misinformation.

It also shows that th4 distrust of people in their government has reached proportions which become very dangerous indeed.

Last Edited by Mooney_Driver at 22 Oct 06:07
LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

People surely have every right to decline vaccination and to suffer a consequence that may or very well may not result. If they’ve had CV-19 and have antibodies many months later, like for example my wife, I think in particular they have every justification in making that choice. I also think that people who are in the unfortunate position of being unwillingly unprotected by current vaccines need to recognize that they can’t and shouldn’t expect 99.9% of the population (or whatever large percentage is accurate) to bend normal lives to meet their unusual needs to a significant degree. One hopes new technology (for example antivirals) may help in the future but regardless as with every other disease, the real world implications are not ‘fair’, because nature doesn’t work that way and man can’t reasonably change it. The same is also true for the even tinier number of people who have had serious adverse reactions to this vaccine or any other. Life is not fair, they did the ‘right thing’ and lost the lottery anyway. Nobody owes them anything extreme as a result.

If you want to motivate people to get vaccinated, I would think the first thing to do is separate the medical situation from government dictates. People know well what to distrust from their own experience, and government is very properly high on the list. That is especially true in former communist European countries, but right now the resistance to ever increasing force by government is hardening worldwide. I think that will put a permanent cap on the fraction of people who choose to be vaccinated, one that wouldn’t otherwise exist to quite the same degree.

I’m very grateful that the interaction of government with my health care is minimized. When I was vaccinated in March and April the current distasteful (some who understand the definition may say fascist) government forces were not present to the same degree in the US, EU or elsewhere. If the current situation were present then, my judgement might well have taken me to a “wait a while and see” approach. Or I would have had to ignore the bad taste in my mouth while concentrating only on the medical data and going forward with it anyway.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 23 Oct 04:51

I think the underlying theme is the low possibility that you will die from this disease in the first place. Combine this with vaccines that are not 100%, but rather some place between 0% and 80%, gradually dropping since the day you took it. Then add some conspiracy theories and some media hype.

Looking at the ones in my country who have actively motivated people against taking the vaccine, these are mainly religious semi-fanatic leaders who preach it is “unbiblical” or “unethical” to take the vaccine. Pure fantasy within an already existing fantasy view of the world and the universe.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

Silvaire wrote:

shouldn’t expect 99.9% of the population (or whatever large percentage is accurate) to bend normal lives to meet their unusual needs to a significant degree.

At least in Central Europe these days are over. Life is almost unrestricted (surely not “bend to a significant degree”) for those who are vaccinated. Yes, you need to wear a mask indoors in public places (which makes sense) but no significant restriction left.

Germany

Mooney_Driver wrote:

It is a total disgrace how the people of the Balkans have chosen to largely rely on fake information and conspiracy theories

Looking at current situation in Croatia, Bosnia, Monte Negro, Serbia and North Macedonia, I can only say that it aligns with deficient education, excessive religion and lack of political guts to simply say to people that they are stupid if they believe in such BS. Leadership is all about bringing hard decisions in hard times and in our region all politicians missed to make right decisions in order not to lose the votes.

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

lack of political guts to simply say to people that they are stupid if they believe in such BS. Leadership is all about bringing hard decisions in hard times and in our region all politicians missed to make right decisions in order not to lose the votes.

The first country in the world comes to mind as well

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Malibuflyer wrote:

Life is almost unrestricted (surely not “bend to a significant degree”) for those who are vaccinated. Yes, you need to wear a mask indoors in public places (which makes sense) but no significant restriction left.

Actually, it doesnt make sense – Why the restriction to wear a mask indoors if vaccination is the solution?
(And thats if you Ignore that masks are not really more than 10-20% effective anyway)

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